Lacking Bounce

Thank you Ian. All are genuine premier cru Japanese imports with funny stickers on to prove it, and all that, as you would expect from a true-blue rootin'-tootin' audiophile like me.

I admire your insane man with a butterfly photo - what or who is it?

 

I presume your omission of "IMHO" was inadvertent, Bub.

 

He was nuts, yes, but in a good way... Harry Smith - http://www.harrysmitharchives.com/ - is the name.

-- Ian

 

>>> The Aro tonearm was designed for the Troika (I think!), so what would you suggest instead? Sounds OK-ish to me at the moment.

The Troika was a good cart. whether your rebuild captures the original essence is debatable I have heard good and bad rebuilds. In your system, a Lyra or Dynavector would make a good match and you can probably get some dems. Also the new Linn is supposed to be a belter according to Paul Messanger who also rates every other component you use. This will mean spending money though and I know that you like rebuilds so don't usually splash out on expensive cartridges, I think it is worth it.


>>> Preamp better than a 52? Suggestions again please, as I wouldn't mind changing if something was startlingly better, same goes for the cart, btw.

Hovland is very good, the Tom Evans has its supporters, Dynavector L300 is awesome in prototype form, Klyne make excellent pre's as do Spectral. If you can spare the bucks the Spectral is a real option for you. I think it is balanced as well so you can have a better interface to the ATC's. Then there are all of those other valve preamps out there ...


>>> How much does it weigh?? My speakers weigh about 65kilos and they are on Mana stands.

Good point, the stands probably would be ok. Seems to work best on big lumps of granite or marble according to other users.


>>> The problem with all this on-line oneupmanship is that you don't know what my gear and room sound like.

I am sure it sounds superb and I am absolutely sure you enjoy listeneing to it, but there isn't a hope in hell that you will ever admit that my system or any other system that doesn't adhere to your rules will work and be enjoyable. I have had this rammed down my throat through exposure to loads of really good equipment that I would not have bothered with before, all I could think about was how to get the best "hit" from the Naim upgrade path.


>>> "Musicality" may have a dictionary definition, but that doesn't guarantee that it means anything at all.

I was only messing with you. The word is just another attempt to quantify the unquantifiable: Enjoyment from listeneing to music.


>>> Vinyl is so obviously better than CD that anyone who thinks otherwise is either deaf or hasn't heard a decent turntable.

Exactly, where is the argument with that?

Cheers

Jason

 

Here. (But IMHO, of course).

 

Hi Jason,

Am I really that bad? Oh dear. No, of course it will work & sound good off Mana. My point is that I believe it is very likely that the gear will sound even better on Mana. But there's only one way to find out, and if you've already done the experiment, then you'll know the answer.

I know this will sound very irritating to someone who has tried Mana and rejected it, but the recent breakthrough I had with respect to setting-up Mana (the centre-lift method) really does make a huge difference to the effect. Yes, you can laugh about it, or call it common sense if you wish, but long-term users such as Hermann, fox and Paul Duerden agree with me, and I don't think it's obvious unless you point it out. The set-up instructions currently supplied are inadequate in some respects (JW recognises this), and plain wrong in others.

Thanks for the recommendations re cartridges and preamps. I'll bear them in mind when the Troika dies, but I've Alex's old and 'crap' one in the cupboard as a spare.

My hi-fi buying days are sadly at an end (for now) as my children are heading for a very expensive stage in their lives which will last for at least another ten years (a conservative estimate I fear).

You still have an invite to my place if you are passing through. I think you would be surprised at the results I've achieved, but then again perhaps you wouldn't.

Cheers.

 

James, seems the same old type of debate is yet again happening, I have to find myself in agreement with Jason nothing, no matter how good/different is going to 're adjust your prespective' so why bother to go through the same sort of posts every other lunar cycle, you like leading edge, i could show gear that gives leading edge like mana boys could dream of, however, you would still stick with the latter. happy mana days mate Tone

 

No Tony, I'm open minded about gear I've not heard.

Wadia may do it for you, but not for me. I have heard all manner of systems on & off Mana. The 'best' I've heard is my own. This is not to say all the others were no good.

In no particular order: JW's, Paul Duerden's, fox's, Pog's, Alan Ball's for example, all play music very enjoyably indeed, and if you were to set up their systems in my room, who knows?

The systems I've heard off Mana have sounded lifeless and confused in comparison.

Last week I heard what should have been a top-notch system:

LP12, Ekos, van den hul cartridge

Krell pre amp

Some outrageous American 'dreadnought' power amplifier.

Talon loudspeakers which cost $18 000 new.

It was awful. Unlistenable. All down to set-up. A terrible shame, but there it is.

 

I will agree on a lot of big bucks systems, all down to poor set up and mis matching of kit. (no synergy)
Never mind James you are missing a lot, as long as your mana happy, why worry. Tone

 

Tony, telling me that I'm missing a lot is

a) Unhelpful
b) Untrue
c) A guess on your part

Since your visit, my system has acquired a new vinyl front-end and a lot more Mana, this time set-up properly.

 

James I'm in know doubt what so ever mate But please do remember, we do get to listen to some 'awfully good' systems these days. I'm sure your trick TT is better than the last one
Happy mana days. Tone

 

My sympathies; personally, at the rate of progress of my not-so-little-any-more dears, I expect to have to work until I'm at least 300.

 

Bub,

Good post btw. But I am perplexed by this ...

>>> ... but the recent breakthrough I had with respect to setting-up Mana (the centre-lift method) really does make a huge difference to the effect.

Are you saying that most Mana systems in the past have been incorrectly setup? Doesn't that mean that all of the previous rhetoric was a lie or at least overblown? Or is it that the only people who bought Mana have heard it setup right and the ones that haven't, haven't? That sounds a bit too rigid and unlikely to me.

I have heard a few Mana systems, one of them a very serious one, and none have offered me anything that I haven't heard elsewhere and all still showed the essential qualities of the gear on them. So Briks sounded like Briks (albeit very fast Briks).

Possibly the best systems I have heard (and it was bloody, but not stupidly, expensive at 23K) was all supported on and in fitted sideboards that also held the guys records. That system was truly fantastic to listen to. It was in a very good room and it used the components I want to or do own myself.

I know stands have an effect but I don't think they are remotely as important as either the boxes on the stands, the room the system has to work in, or the listeners preferences. There is no right or wrong for everyone. Briks on Mana and Shahinian speakers being good examples.

Cheers

Jason

 

Um, well yes to the first part, unless the torsional tension is taken out of the frames & boards, I believe that the Mana stand will work sub-optimally. I estimate that I was getting maybe 70% out of my stands before I noticed James Jong's method and applied it to both boards & frames.

Of course the components will sound like themselves, there is no 'magic' going on. All Mana can do is allow a component to function at it's very best free of acoustic feedback - or with reduced feedback to be more accurate.

I think a large part of the 'Mana effect' is actually on all the cable connections round the back. Stop them rattling and you are laughing.

I agree that the room has a larger influence on the sound, but you can't upgrade the room without moving house. I think the main reason I like my system best is the room it's in.

Tones, thanks for the sympathy. They are worth it though in the long term I hope. I'll need someone to look after me during my retirement, ho ho.

 

I personally expect to be pushed down the stairs for the insurance money.

P.S. Bub, have you noticed this?

https://www.audio-forums.com/as-rediect/showthread.php?s=&threadid=724

A chance to acquire another Sound Frame.

 

A cheery prospect.

Ta for the info, Joolsburger has mail.

 

Amazing New Discovery

I know this will sound very irritating to someone who has tried Hutter and rejected it (actually, it'll probably just sound irritating, period), but the recent breakthrough I had with respect to setting-up Hutter (the bury the aluminium pillars in bullshit for 20 yrs method) really does make a huge difference to the effect. Yes, you can laugh about it, or call it common sense if you wish, but long-term users such as **** insert name of poor fool who got it all wrong for 20 yrs **** agree with me, and I don't think it's obvious unless you point it out. The set-up instructions currently supplied are inadequate in some respects (AH recognises this), and plain wrong in others.

Alex

 

Thanks Alex. I bet you didn't actually use the centre-lift method.

Every time Hutter is mentioned, I can't help laughing about the 'non-resonant varnish'. Am I ill?

Any road up, what are we going to do about Marco? We don't want him in our patch any more than you do in yours.

 

non resonant varnish??
Oh damn, i hope the B&Q acrlyc stuff i used on my flexy rack dont resonate at the fall off frequency of my TT

I think those pebbles in jars for putting on speakers are now looking a viable and practical way to overcome my room accoustic problem!

 

Well, they used acrylic resins, so resinance is only to be expected.

And I suspect that getting stoned in another fashion altogether may have a more noticeable effect.