Let's get digital
- Thread starter Tom Alves
- Start date
ANOpax
ESL-Meister
Any others?
All this talk of squeezboxes has got me wondering why nobody has mentioned Roku's Soundbridge. I know SKP574 got one a while back but I'd be interested in knowing how the two compare. All the online reviews seem to be written from a PC user's standpoint rather than a HiFi user's pov.
reg (who may ditch the idea of getting a high end cdp after all and go straight to PC=>TacT=>Quads)
:Quad:
All this talk of squeezboxes has got me wondering why nobody has mentioned Roku's Soundbridge. I know SKP574 got one a while back but I'd be interested in knowing how the two compare. All the online reviews seem to be written from a PC user's standpoint rather than a HiFi user's pov.
reg (who may ditch the idea of getting a high end cdp after all and go straight to PC=>TacT=>Quads)
:Quad:
Adding an external DAC will produce results in most cases. As an added bonus you can plug in other digital sources such as DVD player, FreeView box, etc into a DAC and enjoy a big gain in quality.Tom Alves said:
Highly acclaimed M-Audio Super DAC 2496 is only about £150 now new and around £100 used.
It is made for the music industry. A much bigger market place than stereo hi-fi. Economies of scale that mass production brings keeps the price down to levels hi-fi industry can only dream of. If it is a 'hi-fi product' sold though the hi-fi trade with its big margins, it will have a 'hi-fi price tag' of at least double.
For specs and features see data sheet at http://www.gbaudio.co.uk/data/dac2496.htm
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Tom,
The Audio synthesis DACs are available at great prices and should do the job just fine.
The Audio synthesis DACs are available at great prices and should do the job just fine.
Folks, this continues to be one fascinating thread, am curently saving for a hi-fi upgrade but thoughts of new Quad kit are currently evaportating as this seems to be the way forward. so i'm here to ask for your assistance please.
as yet we dont have a PC at home so can anybody please recomend a spec for one as we'll be buying in the new year - needs to work with usual internet stuff and be photo friendly (photography is my other interest).
in making any recomendations please clarify any abreviations - sorry to ask so much of you all but i'm currently the kind of person that thinks Windows are something you look through, and Apple is a fruit.......
And finally, appreciate i'm new to these boards would anyone out there happy to let me see / hear their HDD based system in operation - home is West Yorks but i have a car...
Thanks in anticipation and all the best to all
Chris
as yet we dont have a PC at home so can anybody please recomend a spec for one as we'll be buying in the new year - needs to work with usual internet stuff and be photo friendly (photography is my other interest).
in making any recomendations please clarify any abreviations - sorry to ask so much of you all but i'm currently the kind of person that thinks Windows are something you look through, and Apple is a fruit.......
And finally, appreciate i'm new to these boards would anyone out there happy to let me see / hear their HDD based system in operation - home is West Yorks but i have a car...
Thanks in anticipation and all the best to all
Chris
michaelab
desafinado
Chris, welcome to the forum. I don't have time just now to reply properly other than to suggest that if you are a computer novice I would get an Apple Mac like one of the new iMac G5s. It'll end up being a bit more expensive but it'll save you hours of frustration, tearing your hair out and calling PC literate friends to sort out your computer again.
See here for where to buy Apple's in the UK.
Michael.
See here for where to buy Apple's in the UK.
Michael.
julian2002
Muper Soderator
chris,
if you're ever 'daahn sarf' then you're more than welcome to drop by and have a listen to my pc audio system. i'm based in bedfordshire - pm me if you want to arrange something.
assuming a decent spec pc (3+ ghz processor 512+mb ram, good video card - radeon or gforce preferably and the usual compliment of USB (Universal serial bus) and networking sockets)
basically for music - if you go the squeezebox route the most important feature will be the size of the hard drive at least 250+gb if you are going to be using lossless compression with the facility to add more hard drives as time progresses.
you'll also need a cd or dvd rom drive to rip the cds but these are all but standard now.
if you don;t go the squeezebox route i can;t really comment but you'll need a good soundcard - i belive there are some decent external USB soundcard availible. also if this is your preferred route a wireless keyboard and mouse would probably be best too as no remote control!
you'll also need a crossover cable to connect the squeezebox to the pc. and some cables to connect the squeezebox to the hi-fi.
software - best pc ripper i've found is Exact Audio Copy (eac). this can rip to a variety of formats mp3/ aac / flac / etc. or you could just use itunes but i'm wary of their flexible licensing agreement that can change at any time. if you need an mp3 codec, lame is generally regarded to be the best.
that should get you started.
cheers
julian
if you're ever 'daahn sarf' then you're more than welcome to drop by and have a listen to my pc audio system. i'm based in bedfordshire - pm me if you want to arrange something.
assuming a decent spec pc (3+ ghz processor 512+mb ram, good video card - radeon or gforce preferably and the usual compliment of USB (Universal serial bus) and networking sockets)
basically for music - if you go the squeezebox route the most important feature will be the size of the hard drive at least 250+gb if you are going to be using lossless compression with the facility to add more hard drives as time progresses.
you'll also need a cd or dvd rom drive to rip the cds but these are all but standard now.
if you don;t go the squeezebox route i can;t really comment but you'll need a good soundcard - i belive there are some decent external USB soundcard availible. also if this is your preferred route a wireless keyboard and mouse would probably be best too as no remote control!
you'll also need a crossover cable to connect the squeezebox to the pc. and some cables to connect the squeezebox to the hi-fi.
software - best pc ripper i've found is Exact Audio Copy (eac). this can rip to a variety of formats mp3/ aac / flac / etc. or you could just use itunes but i'm wary of their flexible licensing agreement that can change at any time. if you need an mp3 codec, lame is generally regarded to be the best.
that should get you started.
cheers
julian
If you are a PC virgin I recommend you buy one from new rather than build one yourself - a little warranty and support can go a long way when you are in the learning curve that is computers and the internet.
michaelab
desafinado
Or just get a Mac. iMac G5 specced with 512Mb RAM and a 250Gb hard drive, iTunes (comes with the Mac), Airport Express - sorted.
Lordy - figured you'd all be off down the pub by now so thankyou for the replies!
i think sqeezebox is the way forward for me as the potential for multi-room functionality if one of my key drivers here.
my plan would be to base the hard drive in the back bedroom with the PC and either run cables or go wireless (any comments on either option would be welcome, we are currently renovating the place, plasterer has been in but the floors are still up if cabling is the best option)
i presume wireless would be the PC side of the operation and cables would be required from squeeze box to dac-amp-speakers? from this you can probably tell i'm looking at un-compressed RIPing
as for the PC - i have a very PC savvy mate who also builds, so potential to custom build, and save a few quid, is there but that MAC sure is puuuuuurdy!. I'll have to see what stretch we have in the renovation budget! One question though - earlier posts discussed the benefit of 'fan free' cpu's etc - is this something i really need to worry about
Julian - thanks for the offer - we'll be down saarf late January, if we drive i may well PM you and swerve by yours on the way back to the frozen North.
Thats me for now, off till next week, will catch up with you all then.
Thanks again and have a good one!
i think sqeezebox is the way forward for me as the potential for multi-room functionality if one of my key drivers here.
my plan would be to base the hard drive in the back bedroom with the PC and either run cables or go wireless (any comments on either option would be welcome, we are currently renovating the place, plasterer has been in but the floors are still up if cabling is the best option)
i presume wireless would be the PC side of the operation and cables would be required from squeeze box to dac-amp-speakers? from this you can probably tell i'm looking at un-compressed RIPing
as for the PC - i have a very PC savvy mate who also builds, so potential to custom build, and save a few quid, is there but that MAC sure is puuuuuurdy!. I'll have to see what stretch we have in the renovation budget! One question though - earlier posts discussed the benefit of 'fan free' cpu's etc - is this something i really need to worry about
Julian - thanks for the offer - we'll be down saarf late January, if we drive i may well PM you and swerve by yours on the way back to the frozen North.
Thats me for now, off till next week, will catch up with you all then.
Thanks again and have a good one!
julian2002
Muper Soderator
chris,
wired is definately the way to go as i found my microwave caused dropouts when running wirelessly. if you are planning to have multiple squeezeboxes then just run cat5 to all the rooms and terminate in wall boxes then you can run cables within the room to wherever you want. you'll also need a router and patch cables rather than a single crossover cable.
cheers
julian
wired is definately the way to go as i found my microwave caused dropouts when running wirelessly. if you are planning to have multiple squeezeboxes then just run cat5 to all the rooms and terminate in wall boxes then you can run cables within the room to wherever you want. you'll also need a router and patch cables rather than a single crossover cable.
cheers
julian
michaelab
desafinado
Chris, if your PC is not in the same room as the hifi the quietness of operation is not critical (obviously). You can get various fanless CPU coolers and even fanless PC PSUs (see www.quietpc.co.uk for all things of that type) but IMO it's safer to go with some of the quiet fanned solutions. Of course if you got an iMac G5 none of this is an issue 
btw, I'm not one of those Mac zealots, I use a PC myself but there's no question that Macs are a) gorgeous bits of kit and b) far easier for computer novices to use. If you have a mate who can build a PC for you and hold your hand through all the wireless music setup then that will be a cheaper way to go though.
Michael.
btw, I'm not one of those Mac zealots, I use a PC myself but there's no question that Macs are a) gorgeous bits of kit and b) far easier for computer novices to use. If you have a mate who can build a PC for you and hold your hand through all the wireless music setup then that will be a cheaper way to go though.
Michael.
garyi
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Tom, I got to page 6 where you suggested selling the CD player.
I know this what you are doing is all fun and gives you the opportunity to play with new toys, but trust me on this if for nothing else.
You will seriously regret selling the CD player, there is a £3000 quid difference and its something you will realise once you no longer have the funds.
I did all this, I lived with it for a while, I swapped out dacs, changed settings imported CDs with no compression, changed leads etc etc etc, in the end I had to save up and get a second hand CDX to get any where near the quality I had become accustomed to.
With a CDS2 it will be even harder for you, at the very least sell the CDS2 get a second hand CDX and go from there.
I know this what you are doing is all fun and gives you the opportunity to play with new toys, but trust me on this if for nothing else.
You will seriously regret selling the CD player, there is a £3000 quid difference and its something you will realise once you no longer have the funds.
I did all this, I lived with it for a while, I swapped out dacs, changed settings imported CDs with no compression, changed leads etc etc etc, in the end I had to save up and get a second hand CDX to get any where near the quality I had become accustomed to.
With a CDS2 it will be even harder for you, at the very least sell the CDS2 get a second hand CDX and go from there.
garyi
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One other thing, if I were to do this again, I would do roughly what I did before, itunes> Mac G5> digital out >DAC >hifi.
For streaming I would have bought the Ruko which works seamlessly with itunes, and looks a lot nicer than the squeeze box as well
For streaming I would have bought the Ruko which works seamlessly with itunes, and looks a lot nicer than the squeeze box as well
garyi said:
At the end of the day I tend to find pressing just 'open' ,'close' then 'play' far easier and relaxing than messing around with a cheap or expensive PC.
Plus after even 10 years the CD player will still be worth a few hundred quid and the PC?...Landfill!
julian2002
Muper Soderator
gary,
the dacs you were using were not exactly fantastic were they? did you really expect a 10+ year old arcam to compete with a naim cd player? also you were using a very cheap 10 meter optical digital i/c which again is not the best thing quality wise. however as you say you tried it and didn't like it. i've had a different experience, selling on my naim cdp and not regretting it for an instant. i'm sure tom is able to reach his own conclusions.
puma,
as long as the pc has hard drive space (and this will be tough to run out of with 1tb drives for under 200 quid just round the corner) why would you want to get rid of it? after 10 years it will have a shit load of storage in it and still be playing music without any problems or if it has had problems it will be relatively easy to source spares and repair it. with the way cd players are going once your transport has gone kaput IT will be landfill.
cheers
julian
the dacs you were using were not exactly fantastic were they? did you really expect a 10+ year old arcam to compete with a naim cd player? also you were using a very cheap 10 meter optical digital i/c which again is not the best thing quality wise. however as you say you tried it and didn't like it. i've had a different experience, selling on my naim cdp and not regretting it for an instant. i'm sure tom is able to reach his own conclusions.
puma,
as long as the pc has hard drive space (and this will be tough to run out of with 1tb drives for under 200 quid just round the corner) why would you want to get rid of it? after 10 years it will have a shit load of storage in it and still be playing music without any problems or if it has had problems it will be relatively easy to source spares and repair it. with the way cd players are going once your transport has gone kaput IT will be landfill.
cheers
julian
garyi
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Julian, the arcam was swapped out for a meridian, the cable was ditched for a better quality 3 metre one.
At the end of the day if you are happy with the quality then thats excellent as its a great solution.
I have had a scan through Tom Alves music collection, he is obviously someone who is obsessed with music, I don't believe the investment he has made into music with be rewarded by this route.
Just trying to inject another way is all
At the end of the day if you are happy with the quality then thats excellent as its a great solution.
I have had a scan through Tom Alves music collection, he is obviously someone who is obsessed with music, I don't believe the investment he has made into music with be rewarded by this route.
Just trying to inject another way is all
julian2002 said:
I'm sure motherboard and storage technology would have moved on a long way by then. I wouldnt trust a ten year old hardrive/motherboard. I've replaced enough 4 year old ones in my time. Unless you are using the old 'broom' methodology - "I've had this broom 30 years, its had 10 new handles and 20 new brushes but its still the same broom!"
I managed to get over £300 for my 10 year old Meridian CD player (I paid £600 new). I wouldnt give £1 for a 1994 486DX 8mb PC with a 150mb harddrive and 8bit sound card running Win3.1. How PC tech is developing you wont want to keep a PC (or more specifically current PC tech) that long.
I'm not against the PC route at all. I just dont see it as a full replacement for a proper hifi system for ME. I just work with PC kit all the while and just know how disposable and cheap it all is. If it works for you thats great.
I have a laptop with a Creative external USB sound box with around 60 CD's copied to it, its handy to have but I couldnt live with it as my only music source.I'm intrigued by it all, please continue with the investigations.
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bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
I dont know about that Puma. Im typing this on a 10 year old PC that I havent upgraded since the year I bought it. (okayy.. I did upgrade from Win 95 to Win 98). If I'd upgraded every 4 years I'd now be about 2 grand worse off!
NB I AM about to upgrade though - to my sisters old PC that she's going to give me. That one's also been running flawlessly for ages, its 7 years old. Its 800mhz I think.
Im going to stuff a newer hard drive in my latest aquisition - and in the long run get a network card (20 quid) and squeezebox device (200?) - and hey presto a cheap digital dukebox.
I dont see any reason why you need a mega computer to do it.
Banger-nomics
NB I AM about to upgrade though - to my sisters old PC that she's going to give me. That one's also been running flawlessly for ages, its 7 years old. Its 800mhz I think.
Im going to stuff a newer hard drive in my latest aquisition - and in the long run get a network card (20 quid) and squeezebox device (200?) - and hey presto a cheap digital dukebox.
I dont see any reason why you need a mega computer to do it.
Banger-nomics
