Martin Logan Clarity speakers

[cougarboy]

Now I've gone and done it...!

I was listening to the ML's again last night, for an extended period, and put all preconceptions to one side. Just put random CD after CD on and listened. And I was finally persuaded that maybe I can live with the unique ELS sound long term. The insight they provide into the performance is so beguiling.

I've decided the ML Clarity's are not for me, due to the bass integration issues, but I've found a set of Final 500PL speakers on clearance for a good price, so I've bought them! They arrive tomorrow. Gulp. No home dem, no trial, they're mine now, for better or worse!

So watch this space... it'll be make or break for me and ESL's. I'll be trying to match them to my REL Strata III subwoofer.

Moment of madness or audio nirvana... fingers crossed for the latter.

tom.

ps if it all goes wrong I'm blaming Rainman as he pointed me to Final's in the first place! I'll expect him to buy them off me as penance...

 

[Dynamic Turtle]

Cool - the 500PL seem quite interesting. If you can get away with having 5ft tall speakers in your lounge, this is probably the way forward. Seems to be the minimum size needed to get some bass out of electrostatics.

Did you get the UKD ones for a grand? Looks like a good deal to me

Good luck trying to integrate them with your REL. You'll need it!!

DT

 

[cougarboy]

Cool - the 500PL seem quite interesting. If you can get away with having 5ft tall speakers in your lounge, this is probably the way forward. Seems to be the minimum size needed to get some bass out of electrostatics.
DT

I was debating the 700, but at over 6' high I chickened out!! I think I can live with the smaller 5' model, and as nobody else shares the house there's noone to challenge it They won't blend in as well as the Clarity's do though - they are remarkably svelte for an ELS design.

Yes, I got them through UKD, got a good price.

I'm already reading my REL manual... This could be an interesting time...

tom.

 

[raindance]

Raindance is the name, Tom.

Good for you. If you like planar sound, full range units are less compromised than hybrids. If they are similar to the newer models, cross the sub over at about 80 Hz and work down from there. Watch the gain on the sub - the Finals are only 86dB per watt and you'll need to run the sub volume lower than you're used to. Personally, I prefer a tight bass sound, so like my sub between the speakers some way into the room and away from rear wall. This also adds to the impression of 'speed'.

I use Maggies myself (not electrostats but magnetic-planar), but found the Finals the most tolerable electrostats out there.

Let me know how it goes, Tom.

 

[raindance]

By the way, on the earlier discussion about standmounts with ribbon tweeters - I heartily recommend the Aurum Cantus Leisure II SE's - had a good listen to a pair on the weekend and was blown away. System was MHDT Labs NOS DAC (which I have now bought), Chinese valve preamp, Chinese transport, pair of digital amps & a nice sub. They may not be efficient enough for SET though.

 

[Garmt]

As always, opinions vary, as I found those Aurum Cantus speakers entirely wrong sounding.

 

[Dynamic Turtle]

By the way, on the earlier discussion about standmounts with ribbon tweeters - I heartily recommend the Aurum Cantus Leisure II SE's - had a good listen to a pair on the weekend and was blown away. System was MHDT Labs NOS DAC (which I have now bought), Chinese valve preamp, Chinese transport, pair of digital amps & a nice sub. They may not be efficient enough for SET though.

Yeah - in half a mind to try some of those AC's, or the Red Rose equivalents (which I understand have some small modifications/changes).

If they're anything like those other Chinese "wonder speakers", JAS Audio, I'll be sorely disappointed however...

DT

 

[kt66]

I've just taken delivery of a pair of Martin Logan Clarity electrostatic hybrids. These were intended to replace a set of JMLab Electra 905's (excellent speakers!).

.

did you listen to them before buying them?

 

[cougarboy]

Raindance is the name, Tom.
[/QUOTE/
Oops, I was close :nuno:

I use Maggies myself (not electrostats but magnetic-planar), but found the Finals the most tolerable electrostats out there.
Let me know how it goes, Tom.

It's been a difficult couple of weeks with the Final's, but I think I have finally(no pun) got to grips with them. I bought Electrocompaniet amps (EC4.7, AW120) to drive them, after playing around with my Sugdens and realising they weren't going to cut it. I think the mylar panels also needed a bit of break-in time.

The Final's surprised me, for an electrostatic they have a much sweeter tone than you'd expect. Certainly not as dry as the ML's or the Audiostatics I heard yesterday. But they seem to sacrifice a bit of transparency and detail for that sweetness. I thought that was a lack at first, but overall this seems to be a nice balance, and they match the Electrocompaniet sound extremely well in my opinion.

I've given up on the Subwoofer matching, I'm actually pretty happy with the bass reponse just from the panels. It's not quite as tight as a box speaker, but it's full enough for my tastes and with good note articulation.

The great thing about the Final's, other than their fantastic sound, is how easily they seem to integrate into a room. They're very elegant and slender, for a 5' speaker they are nowhere near as imposing or intrusive as you'd expect.

In summary, they seem to need huge amps to drive them properly, but if you crack that problem then they are an excellent ELS design in my opinion.

cheers,
tom.

 

[cougarboy]

did you listen to them before buying them?

They were on home-dem - that's what the thread's been discussing.

Bought Final 500PL's in the end.

 

[Dynamic Turtle]

It's been a difficult couple of weeks with the Final's, but I think I have finally(no pun) got to grips with them. I bought Electrocompaniet amps (EC4.7, AW120) to drive them, after playing around with my Sugdens and realising they weren't going to cut it. I think the mylar panels also needed a bit of break-in time.

The Final's surprised me, for an electrostatic they have a much sweeter tone than you'd expect. Certainly not as dry as the ML's or the Audiostatics I heard yesterday. But they seem to sacrifice a bit of transparency and detail for that sweetness. I thought that was a lack at first, but overall this seems to be a nice balance, and they match the Electrocompaniet sound extremely well in my opinion.

I've given up on the Subwoofer matching, I'm actually pretty happy with the bass reponse just from the panels. It's not quite as tight as a box speaker, but it's full enough for my tastes and with good note articulation.

The great thing about the Final's, other than their fantastic sound, is how easily they seem to integrate into a room. They're very elegant and slender, for a 5' speaker they are nowhere near as imposing or intrusive as you'd expect.

In summary, they seem to need huge amps to drive them properly, but if you crack that problem then they are an excellent ELS design in my opinion.

cheers,
tom.

Thanks for the review Tom - it is much appreciated. Bit surprised by your decision to sell the Sugdens, as I thought you were adamant about keeping them? Only ever heard good things about EC though. 120wpc are they?

Very glad to hear the 500PL's "sacrifice transparency for sweetness". The emphasis should always be on musicality and "listenability", rather than providing the nth degree of transparency. IMO this can over-analyse the music and spoil the overall presentation. Also glad to hear they're not as "dry" as ML's & Audiostatics!

So subwoofer matching was hard then? Not surprised. Never heard a sub integrate perfectly with any type of speakers, let alone ELS's. I'm sure a day will come one day though, as subs & their acoustic behaviour benefit from HC research budgets, which seem pretty large these days!

Not entirely convinced that a 5ft speaker will "disappear" in the room completely, but saying that, the garish red sofa that my flatmate bought last month doesn;t even register now!

Unfortunately, if the 500PL's need hugely powerful amps to drive them, I'll have to give them a miss. I love my 20wpc SET's and they're not going anywhere!

DT

 

[cougarboy]

Thanks for the review Tom - it is much appreciated. Bit surprised by your decision to sell the Sugdens, as I thought you were adamant about keeping them? Only ever heard good things about EC though. 120wpc are they?

Yep, me too. But they were clearly not going to drive the Final's properly, regardless of how much I love that pure Class A sound. I tried the Masterclass Integrated, but at 33watts p/c that was also struggling. I would have dearly loved to try the Sugden Masterclass monoblocks but they're out of my price range, sadly! The EC Aw120 is 120w per channel,but I've just bought another one off ebay so I'll be bridging them to provide about 400w. The EC stuff is not pure class A, despite the many times that people say that it is.

So, if anybody wants a Sugden a21a/p combo for a good price, let me know. I'll be extremely sad to see them go. Simply great amps.

Very glad to hear the 500PL's "sacrifice transparency for sweetness".

It's odd, you really don't expect ELS's to be that sweet in the mid-range, but they definitelely are, its not the amps. Overall I think it's a good balance, and it tends to draw you into the sound far more than the ML's did, which could really set your teeth on edge with the wrong music. When I went back to my Focal's for an evening, it was enlightening to appreciate just how quick and clean musical transients are on the Final's, without sounding clinical.

So subwoofer matching was hard then?

I only played around for a short while, but initial experiments pointed to it being a disaster. I'll come back to it when I have more time, but I'm not hopeful of a happy marriage of the two.

Not entirely convinced that a 5ft speaker will "disappear" in the room completely

Yes, see what you're saying, but they're visually much more elegant than any other ELS or Maggie I've ever seen, and they are light enough that you can very easily slide them back to the rear wall when not being used. They don't dominate a room. I love the sound of Maggies, but I've never had a room where I could physcially locate the bigger ones, and, imo, they look like office room dividers rather than a piece of hifi!

Unfortunately, if the 500PL's need hugely powerful amps to drive them, I'll have to give them a miss. I love my 20wpc SET's and they're not going anywhere!

Well, that seems to be my experience with them. The control/charger unit just seems to soak up current! I could see the steam coming off my Sugden's

 

[Dynamic Turtle]

You're feeding them 400 watts now? Blimey, they are thirsty buggers, aren't they?!

I know a Final authorised dealer that owes me a big favour, so maybe I can pursaude them to loan me a pair. I'd want to hear them in my room, on the end of my equipment. Of course, they may say it's a non-starter with my amps, but I'd like to give them a try all the same...

DT

 

[cougarboy]

You're feeding them 400 watts now? Blimey, they are thirsty buggers, aren't they?!

I know a Final authorised dealer that owes me a big favour, so maybe I can pursaude them to loan me a pair. I'd want to hear them in my room, on the end of my equipment. Of course, they may say it's a non-starter with my amps, but I'd like to give them a try all the same...

DT

Not yet, just 120 watts per channel at the moment. But the second EC120 arrives this week (I hope!) then they'll be bridged at 400w per channel. I don't know if they need that or not, but I just want to confirm in my own mind that the Final's are not being limited by amplification. The Innersound guy (Sanders?) seems to build huge amps (800w) to drive his ELS's, and he's cited as the ESL guru by many folks.

If you try the Final's with 20w SET I think you may ultimately be frustrated, and won't hear them working properly. The Sugden Masterclass integrated couldn't drive them at 33w/ch class A single ended. The volume pot was at 12o'clock just to get low level volume out of them, and if you tried to drive them loud, it simply wouldn't happen - you turned up the pot but got no extra volume. Very odd.

Having said all that, I would encourage you to get to hear the Final's in your own home. The longer I live with them, the more impressed I become by their abilities.