New Pre Power Amp Setup

[Levi_501]

I am looking to change my existing pre power amp set up.

Currently I have a Rega Cursa pre amp with 2 Rega Maia power amps in a bi-amp configuration. I find the Regas really really good, very musical and dynamic. I nearly replaced them last year for an Exposure 14/9 set up, but a few things stopped that.

I am quite set on the Music First Audio magnetic pre amp, which I believe to be similar to what Michael runs, IIRC Bent Audio ??? . However, I am not sure of what sort of power amp to go for with this. I fancied running 4 mono block amps, has anyone done this ?

Like most I have always had solid state amps, but wondered whether it may be my opportunity to try valve amplification. Although I am still on the look out for some Exposure 16s !

Noteworthy Audio has a nice Audion Silver Note power amp, although I have not heard it, Peter informs me it works fantastically well with the MF.

A few other options I have is to visit Peter & Les and see what they have on offer, try a DIY kit or go down the S/H route, I did see today there is a nice Bryston mono block combo for sale !

Eventually I would like to add an EAR 834 phono stage.

Off the wall question; What is it like living with valve amps ?

For completeness I am running, Clearaudio Champion TT, Incognito rewired Rega RB300 arm, with Clearaudio Aurum Beta S cartridge, Musical Fidelity XLPS phono stage, with Kef Reference 2 speakers. All connected with Chord Signature interconnects and speaker wire. Oh, and a Marantz CD63 KI DP modified CD player.

Thanks

 

[michaelab]

Music First Audio magnetic pre amp, which I believe to be similar to what Michael runs, IIRC Bent Audio ???

Yep, the MF Audio pre uses the same Stevens & Billington TX102 transformer volume controls and that's all there is to the pre-amp other than the internal wiring (lots of it), the switches and the input/output connections.

Michael.

 

[Dynamic Turtle]

Yep, the MF Audio pre uses the same Stevens & Billington TX102 transformer volume controls and that's all there is to the pre-amp other than the internal wiring (lots of it), the switches and the input/output connections.

Which then begs the question; "why does it cost £1500?!"

DT

 

[bottleneck]

the short answer about living with valve amps...

its exactly the same as a normal amp, except they have £30 lightbulbs on them.

and you have to turn them off when you're done.


Given your nice TT and cart, I'd look at alternative phono stages the sooner the better.

In fact, I think this will give you better sound per £ than the other upgrades you're looking at.

A second hand 834p (or another quality phono stage) will only be about £200 + the price of your existing phono stage second hand.

The improvement is out of all proportion to the budget IMO.... especially when compared to a wholesale pre/power amp swap.

 

[bottleneck]

Which then begs the question; "why does it cost £1500?!"

DT

have a read of this:

http://www.bentaudio.com/index2.html - you have to click on the NOH bit..

looks like there are at least 4 other similar passives.

the only other one I knew about (other than the bent and the TVC one) is the www.diyhifisupply.com one...

however, theres a few more in the link.

cheers
chris

 

[3DSonics]

Hi,

Which then begs the question; "why does it cost £1500?!"

Because it is sold through dealers and distribution networks and the comany needs to pay rent.

Bent Audio on the other hand in essence sells "factory direct", except they don't sell at all right now. That means no dealer margins, no distributor margins, no auditions etc....

So the functionally equivalent Bent Audio Noh costs around $ 1,500 direct from the maker, plus shipping, duties & VAT, while the Music First Preamp costs £ 1,500 from a dealer.

Ciao T

 

[bottleneck]

wonder which is the cheapest?

My money is on the Django (cant be arsed to check em all though)

http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_django.htm

 

[3DSonics]

Hi,

wonder which is the cheapest?

My money is on the Django (cant be arsed to check em all though)

Mine too.

And my money for the most expensive is on the AVTAC Pasiphae... ;-)

Django $ US 1,110 assembled with S&B. Plus shipping taxed, duty but minus balanced inputs and outputs.

Note however, that Bent Audio and DIY HiFisupply are S&B Distributors, so they buy the S&B Parts at prices below what they charge OEM's (eg. Audiozone and AVTAC) and what S&B charges internally to it's "subsidary".

Much more interesting than "Why does the UK made MF Audio cost £ 1,500" is the question as to why the China made copycat passive pre using the same cheap Amorphous Iron core transformers as the really cheap version of the Django which is being sold through UK Retail & Distribution channels costs £ 1,795 (BTW, "silver wired" refers to the wire used to wire up the preamp, not inside the transformers which are copper as far as I can tell - I have a 1.3 here and have looked inside very closely) while offering fewer Inputs (I'll not comment on sound - as I have some degree of tie in with S&B, MF Audio and DIY HiFisupply).

Here:

http://www.aliumaudio.com/15101.html

This should serve to illustrate the normal markups through dealer channels and distribution, rather than to indite the UK Distributor, BTW. MF Audio has struggeled hard to keep the retail price as low as it is and more or less "real" (the first costings with fancier sculptured casework and a smart remote control systems made the costings more like the AVTAC, FWIW.

If you feel that's too much, buy from the competing brands or buy something else. In fact, if you buy Bent Audio, DIY HiFisupply, AVTAC or Audiozone the net results in the S&B Books looks not much different at all...

Ciao T

 

[3DSonics]

Hi,

Yep, the MF Audio pre uses the same Stevens & Billington TX102 transformer volume controls

Actually, not Quite.

Bent Audio has their own spec (also found in AVTAC and AudioZone), DIYHFS uses usually also Bent Audio Spec but with other leadouts.

MF Audio have a slightly different spec, which does sound somewhat different.

See:

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/musicfirst/passive.html

for what 6moons has to say about the differences, sonically.

Ciao T

 

[boy_lah]

Levi...if you've never tried valves...what they offer may not be your cup of tea. And if you end up with another SS amp, the MusicFirst might not be a good match. I've found the MusicFirst et al to be exceptionally good but, for me, only with valve amps esp SETs. No no when it comes to SS or digi amps - YMMV.

 

[Hamilton]

John Chapman of Bent has just announced details of his new TVC pre-amp range, on the Bent forum at audiocircles. There will apparently be the option of a genuine silver wired version (i.e. with silver wired trannies).

Cheers

Gordon

 

[3DSonics]

Hi,

There will apparently be the option of a genuine silver wired version (i.e. with silver wired trannies).

Any S&B Transformer is available in Silver (S&B is probably the single largest user of Silver in Transformer manufacture for OEM customers worldwide), the MF Audio Preamp is available in Silver, BUT, the sonics are not such that there is a clearcut preference for silver, IMHO, IME. Save your pennies and get copper...

Ciao T

 

[Levi_501]

the short answer about living with valve amps...

its exactly the same as a normal amp, except they have £30 lightbulbs on them.

and you have to turn them off when you're done.

But do you not have to have them on 15 mins before listening ?

Is it a similar sort of difference in living with vinyl over CD ? CD being instant noise maker, while vinyl takes longer and much more loving and TLC, but the rewards a ten fold in return.

The valve sound and being my cup of tea, well the fact of the matter I have never really listened to a valve amp. I have heard that they are more musical than SS.

I guess I am going to have to listen to a valve system before I start going in the wrong direction.

With regards to the phono stage, may be that should be my first port of call, I do like the Regas very much !

 

[Levi_501]

BTW, thanks to all, I am just going through all the links, it is taking a while !

However, any thoughts on the power amp to suit ?

 

[Stereo Mic]

IMHO a Berning ZH270 will blow your mind, and you can use it as an integrated as it has a passive pot built in.

Frankly, I still find it shocking just how good this thing is compared with the oft touted alternatives. It has all the advantages of valves with none of the drawbacks. Bass like a PWM switcher and valve life 10 times the norm - and it rocks like a good 'un.

My previous amp is regarded as superior in many ways to £12K Audio Research seperates and easily saw off some expensive US 300B monos with WE tubes along with other valve offerings from Audion and BP. The Berning makes it's predecessor sound broken.