to me the difference between hfc and zg is that at hfc people think in absolutes, good and bad, black and white, cables work / cables don't. whereas at zg things have a more subtle graduation of views, like the ability to accept that person a thought cable b sounded better than cable c in system d. is this perhaps a sign of maturity? cheers julian. p.s. sorry isaac didn;t meant to hijack your thread.