pre amp

just a few apollos are shipped so far. the reviews of promitheus TVC with the tube buffer were so far mixed - for some it does, for some not.

my experience is if you want a really good drive (not in terms of gain but groove, dynamics and prat) from a valve pre, you need to go for a transformer coupled ones - some manufacturers were already mentioned (WD, airtight, shindo, EAR, etc).

 

basie

Hi Bottleneck

do you think going the basie route would be better than trying something like an Audio Research SP9?

Anubisgrau

I must I'd like to hear the new WAD pre3 - but I think it will be hard to get hold of one.

thanks for the help chaps

cheers philip

 

As previously mentioned, I used an Artemis Labs LA-1 valve preamp into an Avondale 260z (powerful SS) and they were a superb partnership. When I tried a non-valve pre, the 260z seemed to lose a degree of tonal shading and body. The 260z has now departed and I might also be selling the Artemis to raise some cash for a new project:

http://www.artemislabs.com/LA-1-vacuum-tube-preamp.html

 

Hi beeroclock

It's what I'd buy. Follow the link, read the information on the circuit diagram, why it's popular in the DIY community etc.

I havent had it (the basie + Aikido) and the AR SP9 back to back, so I'm not one to comment on relative merits.

It has to be said, that the DIY hifi supply products I've heard all sound thousands of pounds better than they cost, if that makes sense.

Effectively they are superb very nichey designs, but the kits are cheap because they come from the far east.

The full Aikido Basie + at $1200 (about six hundred quid plus import!) has Audio Note Tantalum resistors, silver wire, posh capacitors etc... that's just the icing on the circuit's cake however...

Like I say have a read...

 

well, well, well...i recieved a passive pre-amp today.(courtesy of zanash) A silver little box that arrived wrapped in bubble wrap and looking home made????possibly zanash??? ..Ive never tried a passive before, but i plugged in and HEY PRESTO! What have i been missing out on all these years? This is what im after...clean bass, lovely vocals, crisp treble...it is without doubt, the best my sysytem has ever sounded. My Spendor BC1 speakers (notoriously bloomy in the bass) sounded tight!!!! I have never understood what is meant by depth of soundstage, but my goodness, I do now. This sound is nothing like the sound of my pre-amp that is active....which retailed at a grand back in the late eighties / early nineties...how can there be such a leap in sound, unless this box is v.expensive...though I doubt it somehow..it looks home made. I have nt pmd Zanash yet, but would ask him to comment on whether this is a purchased product or home made..The difference is clear...Im a fan of passives..this unit sounds so different to the active pres ive heard, though I appreciate it is only a matter of personal taste. Only problem is that it is far too quiet for my listening levels. I wanted to jack up the volume, but it doesnt go nearly half of what im used to....why is this? Are all passives the same? Another question, if I take my Wadia volume control right to the top, it is supposed to eliminate the wadia pre amp function(as far as Im aware) and therefore use whatever is next in thechain. However, when I turned the vol. down on my wadia remote (ie. less than 10 and therfore activating the wadia pre amp again, the sound quality remained better than when I hear it through the wadia pre alone....why? Am I correct on the assumption that the wadia does bypass its own pre when on max volume setting...and...what happens to the signal if I reduce the digital volume on the wadia? does it still use the passiev or no? Confused, but delighted...

 

its a kit off ebay !
but I've wired it with silver ....took about 4m ! you would not think you could squeeze that much into such a small box ....!

you need to set the wadia to max output ....sit back and enjoy

 

Now you need to try an active pre aginst the passive, and then see what your missing! (especially in the mid band)

 

could be i'm talking nonsense, but maybe there is something between a passive and silver.... i've bought an old bent 102H based on S&B trannies and the previous owner piggytailed 30cm of silver solid core directly on the outputs of the transformers - this sounds so dramatically better than through any ICs i tried with it, fast, full of microdynamics and very fluid.... although not curing a slight lack of PRaT for my taste as usual with S&Bs.....

 

If you're like me, you'll hear a load of stuff that shouldn't be there!

 

meaning that the active pre adds something?

 

Meaning a good active pre just actually works a whole lot better.
As I have said before, a passive pre can be a good wow factor, but is fundimentally flawed. All of the most cohesive and intergated/tonally correct/dynamic and textured use active pre's verbaitum. However your our personal choice maybe completely difference. Personally I have yet to hear ANY passive sound convincing real and not missing/upsetting the mid band.
Sure they can be impressive, but as a real long term enjoyment factor, it just simply not an option imho.

 

i can't disagree more.

a word or two on what products exactly you used, tested, compared or just listened to make such a conclusion would add more credibility to your statement.

have you ever heard a properly designed TVC with more advanced core geometry than (for commercial reasons) commonly used EI-cores?

 

I have just received my active buffered TVC from Nicholas at Promitheus, so it is early days yet, but I am very impressed. I have been running my SB+ straight into a power amp for the past few months.

Whenever I have put an active pre into the equation, of various values, I felt I lost more than I gained. For the most part, however, there was always a gain in soundstage and 'go'. I am wiling to consider the imbalance of impedance as a factor, and it may not be like that with every variable out digital into a power amp.

So far, this TVC has given me more presence and spread of sound, with much greater separation and drive. I am not saying it has added anything, but has made it more obvious that the detail was there and presented it in a much more palatable way. It is possible that the sound has lost some 'airiness' with the addition of extra componentry and wiring, but it is not at the loss of musical pleasure. The lyrics of thrash metal are now, for the most part decipherable.


Ian

 

which then is more faithful to the original recording? passive or active?

 

also WM, is the Wadia pre amp a poor substitute for a decent pre amp ? ?(be this passive or active)
What does the wadia pre lack in your opinion?

 

Anubisgrau,

You entitled to your opinion as I did state in the thread earlier.
I guess looking back and reading it, it does come across a bit forced, sorry not the intention. Now to Credibility, and conclusions.
I have heard close to 12 variants thus far in the last 18 months (Currently we own at 4 passives ranging from the early TVC units right up to the full blow superb dooper silver versions with the 'better' transformers).
So to help understand my stance on these we have a lot of listening sessions and system matching critera and have
Compared the tvc's against against, AR sp9/sp11/ref/Levinson 32.5 ref/Spectral dc15/dc30/s/Belles A28/Hovland HP200/Thor/Blue Circle/Gryphon Allego Sonata/Edge/Ayre K5x/Joule Electra/BatVK51E (even though I am not a fan of Bat lol) Belcanto pre3/2/Pass labs X2.5/Kondo M7/Moon P7 (older model)/Jeff Roland C II etc.In a very wide varity of systems ranging from £3000 to over £100K. With valve/solid state/digital/hybrid amplification too.
Sorry they just are not for us,I am not saying they are bad or sound pants, they don't For us they just sound 'wrong' and firmly believe even a modest priced active stage will produce a more inviting sound. Wm

 

Why not bring your Wadia and passive pre along and find out?

 

hi, to be more precise - what i objected in your original post is a sort of generalization that the passives don't work in general. i would be certainly very curious to hear some top fly pres you've listed about against the best TVCs although i have no doubts they would kill any TVC. however, with the exception of the overpriced music first product, most of the TVCs on current market are a very good value which is not something i can say very often for many active designs.

btw i've had a chance to hear X2.5 against promitheus in my system, for me it was clear for the TVC and i do like pass labs stuff & promitheus is not the best passive.

 

At last some one saying something sensible about TVC. For the price < £500 there are few actives that can achieve the open quality of a TVC.

But even then let us compare a TVC with the Rega Cursa.
TVC- Single input, no remote, good sound quality
Cursa - multi input, including phono, remote control, 3 output levels for system matching, slight muffled sound quality

For a lot of people the convenience of most active pre's will win out over the multi box TVC solution.

And then when we talk about active pre's in the Music First price bracket - No contest IMHO

 

At the moment I feel TVC's are the Emporers New Clothes, just like NOS DAC were a couple of years ago. I forecast it will be transformer output Solid State amps next (you read it here first folks )