pre amp

LiloLee said:
I forecast it will be transformer output Solid State amps next (you read it here first folks :) )
Click to expand...

McIntosh beat you by about half a century on that one!

I had a Django TVC for a while - liked it a lot, a nice 'solid' sound, unlike a lot of more conventional passive pre's - great value for money IMO. But if you need gain, like banpe appears to, then you've got to go active (although the +6dB gain available on some TVC pre's can make all the difference).

banpe is considering trying my active LFD pre that is going for a ridiculously low price in the classifieds. It will be interesting to see what he thinks about that.
 
wadia-miester said:
So to help understand my stance on these we have a lot of listening sessions and system matching critera and have
Compared the tvc's against against, AR sp9/sp11/ref/Levinson 32.5 ref/Spectral dc15/dc30/s/Belles A28/Hovland HP200/Thor/Blue Circle/Gryphon Allego Sonata/Edge/Ayre K5x/Joule Electra/BatVK51E (even though I am not a fan of Bat lol) Belcanto pre3/2/Pass labs X2.5/Kondo M7/Moon P7 (older model)/Jeff Roland C II etc.In a very wide varity of systems ranging from £3000 to over £100K. With valve/solid state/digital/hybrid amplification too.
Click to expand...

I think some of you guys are missing the point, by comparing TVCs against preamps costing several times more. To me the attraction of passive pres and TVCs is the value for money.
 
Dev said:
I think some of you guys are missing the point, by comparing TVCs against preamps costing several times more. To me the attraction of passive pres and TVCs is the value for money.
Click to expand...

Yup, I have to agree. VFM means getting the best (for you) for your money. Seems absolutely crucial !

I've had loads of pre-amps over the years, active & passive (including a TVC). They all sound different! You've just got to find one that suits your current system and current musical tastes.

IMO passives (even TVC) do take away drive and dynamics a little (sometimes a lot) and can even sound grainy (although I strongly suspect this is a system interaction problem, not inherent to a particular pre. I had an Audiosynthesis pre that I bought to drive Jadis JA80 valve monoblocks - sounded awfully grainy there, which it didn't so much into other power amps. Go figure!!). Generally, passives have very good clarity and detail, though.

I've owned Audio Research SP11/2 valve, BAT VK3i valve, Concordant Exquisite valve, MF F22 valve, Django TVC passive, AudioSynthesis passive, Creek passive, MF 308 solid state, LFD LS2 solid state, ... and I'm sure some others that slip my mind at the moment :)

I guess my least fave was the AudioSynthesis and my best faves have been the BAT, the LFD and the Django TVC. (I currently use an integrated amp). IME valve pres are good for what I think of as 'dynamic detail', but generally do sound a bit coloured. Passive pres lack drive, and active pres fall in-between!

Nothings perfect, you've just got to find one that works for you. (As always).
 
hmm not 100% convinced.

TVC's are cheap when...

.. they come from Malaysia (promethius)

they are reasonably priced, packaged more attractively when...

... they are British/supplier direct (glasshouse)

they are expensive when...

they go through dealership/distributor channels. (M. First)



You can say the exact same thing with active pre-amps... e.g.

cheap - ming da

medium - diyhifisupply

expensive - you name it!
 
Dev said:
I think some of you guys are missing the point, by comparing TVCs against preamps costing several times more. To me the attraction of passive pres and TVCs is the value for money.
Click to expand...
One tricky -- and often overlooked -- matter is how well the source component (say, the phono or cdp) can drive the load (i.e. the amp).... i.e. if there is enough energy and, such as this energy is, are there gross losses along the way (via the TVC interface).
One practical example: a 2V, 22ohm output cdp connected to a 10kOhm TVC, itself connected to 11kOhm amplification, doesn't seem to suffer any losses (weak bass, diminished mid-bass energy, etc).

Active pres don't have that limitation. Nor will/should they suffer from output impedance anomalies. TVCs can and do.
 
OK then, apart from MFA which passive/TVC costs anywhere near the actives mentioned in WM's post? Even MFA is cheap compared to some of them. I'm not saying TVC are the best thing since whatever, just a sense of perspective regarding cost is needed.


bottleneck said:
hmm not 100% convinced.

TVC's are cheap when...

.. they come from Malaysia (promethius)

they are reasonably priced, packaged more attractively when...

... they are British/supplier direct (glasshouse)

they are expensive when...

they go through dealership/distributor channels. (M. First)



You can say the exact same thing with active pre-amps... e.g.

cheap - ming da

medium - diyhifisupply

expensive - you name it!
Click to expand...
 
i really don't want to sound like a TVC apologist - i'm actually not - but i am not rich enough to fiddle with expensive active preamps that clearly winn over TVCs. most of the cheap stuff is not - haven't heard ming-da but i've heard valve preamps that have better reputation than it and TVC rolled over them easily. i bought my EAR s/h, £700 was no brainer for such a good one. so if we speak about economy, what i practise is used actives or either new (promi) or used (bent) TVCs.

true there are rules to respect in order to make a TVC work correctly, but isn't the same for the actives. i'm the first one to say this - i tried running my 10k amps with 800 ohm active pre and it badly failed (absolutely no bass, no drive).

whatever you match in audio you have to put certain parameters into consideration. why is a TVC an exception?

yes, they don't have a remote, at least not for a peanuts (unless you want bent TAP that has looks and comfort of a million buck preamp).
neither has it my EAR 864 (its new RC version costs close to £4k i think, 868), and many good valve pres i know.

the reason why i have bent TVC is a) it sounds very good, especially for background listening b) it's dirt cheap (425$ inc delivery off audiogon, many thanks to a UK buyer who pulled from the sale so i could grab it) c) sometimes it's a nice feeling to have one component less plugged into AC

that's all, nothing more, nothing less. it's really not a competition to my active preamp.
 
hi Dev

certainly compared to something like a Kondo Pre, the MF is a lot cheaper.

At £2,000-£3,000 (approx) the MF isn't cheap though, and you can get a wide variety of (what I would call) expensive active pre-amps for the price.

In terms of 'VFM' - a look inside the box of a passive pre-amp makes me question the value of an MF passive pre - as Lee said, an active pre in the £2,000-£3,000 will often come with a phono stage, headphono amp, tone controls, remote control etc.
 
I give up!

Or maybe not:D.

I only mentioned MFA because it was the most expensive TVC I could think of and said that compared to some of the active pres mentioned it was cheap.

My original point was that we are comparing chalk and cheese in terms of cost. Any comparison should take into account the cost of the kit. So by all means compare the MFA with other £2-3K preamps but don't compare a Glasshouse, Promethius or Django (for example) with amps costing ten times more (exaggerated to make a point). If after comparing kits in the same ball park, one picks active and another picks passive then good luck to them both.

Regarding tone control, remote control, phone stage etc. none of my amps (SS or Valve) have had them. Not important to me. However, it may be a consideration to others, in which case they should take it into account. BTW there is a remote control version of the Django I believe.
 
As a not so rough comparison between two pres in pretty much the same price bracket. There was absolutely no comparison between my MFA TVC and CJ PV-10. The CJ was soft and euphonic, the MFA much more detailed, lively, far better bass etc just totally superior. Would be interested in comparing it at some stage to a more expensive active though.

Jeff
 
Hi Jeff!

Hows things? Havent seen you on here in a while?

I had a PV-10 for a while too.

It had great build quality, and is available for great money second hand.

I did feel it had a sonic character though, and you can get (in my view) much clearer/more detailed etc from comparably priced active pre-s.

In fact, an Audio Innovations L1 (about £250 used) is a better bet in my view. Not a very pretty pre however. It's easily improved by changing a few parts too.

I just wanted to say you don't have to ''spend the bucks'' to get (what I consider) to be a pre-amp that I would personally choose over the MF.

The Diyhifisupply Basie + Aikido (about £600 built up) I would choose over it in a heartbeat.

Julian (doesnt post so much anymore) came and visited when I had the MF up against my Basie (an older version, not as upgraded as the one I'm using now), and we both prefered the presentation of the Basie.

The source has a high output, and the power amp was set to easily take a passive - so it was a preference of sound.

**edit**
I know some people prefer passives, and above them TVC passives - and good luck to them. It's a choice of the sound that you want at the end of the day, not a ''better'' ''worse'' scenario.
 
I wish manufacturers would make more remote control passives. I know Bent and Anatek have them, but that's two (AFAIK) versus several hundred remote control active preamps. Now, call me lazy, but who here actually likes getting up to change the volume? Christ, it's bad enough having to turn the LP every 15 minutes....

I use a BAT active pre and I love its flexibility. Sound wise it could do with more euphony (it's a bit "hi-fi") but everything else on offer (XLR & SE, remote, tape loop, volume pre-sets, fade, display dim, phono stage, capacitor upgrades etc.) outweighs this little niggle.

I know half the point of these TVC things is streamlined sound-per pound performance, but flexibility is very important too, and something that should not be overlooked when choosing a preamp.

DT
 
Dynamic Turtle said:
I wish manufacturers would make more remote control passives. I know Bent and Anatek have them, but that's two (AFAIK) versus several hundred remote control active preamps. Now, call me lazy, but who here actually likes getting up to change the volume? Christ, it's bad enough having to turn the LP every 15 minutes....

....

I know half the point of these TVC things is streamlined sound-per pound performance, but flexibility is very important too, and something that should not be overlooked when choosing a preamp.
Click to expand...

I suspect the real reason is that without the passive needs no power supply. Add a remote and suddenly it does. It doesn't bother me in the slightest I have to say. I haven't any thing remote controlled in my front room and won't have. Nasty, badly designed things that eat batteries and are forever getting lost, I detest them.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top