tones
compulsive cantater
You've persuaded me, Tony, I'll try it out for a second time on the Mimik, which is now 7 years old, and report back.
[Review] Densen DeMagic demagnetising CD
- Thread starter tones
- Start date
You do realise that the Green pen thing was a joke played on the tweak a holics dont you?
If I suggested you put self raising flour in your petrol tank to
improve the performance of your car you would rightly tell me to get lost, as it was totally against the overall concepts of the
internal combustion engine... Or words to that effect!.
That is the same for the silly products we are talking about here.
Any product that offers to make some improvement needs to be checked against some basic facts. see the self raising flour analogy.
Demagnetising non metallic components is just silly.
This is PRECISELY the same thing as the green pen scam: appeals to controlling "scattered laser light" of the edge of the disk.
Only this time, somebody was thumbing through an old laser physics book and happened upon something called a "Brewster window", where the glass seal at the end of a helium-neon laser tube was sealed with glass set at 37 degrees. This was before the days when the mirrors where an integral part of the tube itself.
Well, unfortunately, we have yet ANOTHER case of too little knowledge doing a lot of damage. ALL of these scams totally ignore the fact that the entire pickup system is immune to alledged problems these toys are supposed to correct. The laser reading is done by coherent interference and DOES NOT depend upon reflection, as the people who make these things claim.
In order for edge reflections to have ANY effect, the total round-
trip distance traveled between the current pit being read and the edge MUST be an exact integral multiple of the wavelength, AND the returning spurious reflection MUST be significantly brighter than the direct beam illumination AND has to have been created in the first place. That means that the angle of incidence has to have been sufficiently shallow (not 90 degrees, like the entire system is configured, but more like 20 degrees!) to begin with to cause enough energy to find its way to the edge.
These people either haven't got a f**king clue what they are talking about, or they are hoping their customer base doesn't.
What could be more objective than that? Its not
hypothetical that it was a joke played on the tweakers, which
unfortunately got way out of hand, now with £20 special green
pens for sale. That makes it especially cruel.
Travelling apothecaries in the american west used to sell little bottles of opium, as cure for most any ailment. Would I really need to test it as a cure for flu? Without even seeing the stuff, I can tell you that it would make you feel great, but wouldn't do a bit of good for your flu.
If I disseminated a hoax that storing your power cables in Corgette puree at precisely 38 degrees farenheit improved the imaging and soundstage.
Would you go there? Would you really need to test it?
I'll ask again.
Have you tried the products you are so merrily slagging off?
What hifi system do you run (if any)?
Have you tried the products you are so merrily slagging off?
What hifi system do you run (if any)?
LiloLee
Blah, Blah, Blah.........
And that's the point. If there is any reflection which interfers with the reading then it becomes in-coherent, leading to misreadings.
And the proof - read a disk with EAC as if you were going to rip it and keep the log of how many times it needs to re-read part of the disk to ensure it is consistent. Then put green ink around the edge. EAC has fewer read errors with that disk.
Your argument against the green pen is simply by ridiculing it. Scientist might ignore an hypothesis, others may try to disprove by experiment, but publically they will not put in writting a technobabble statement not even worthy of Star Trek writers which has no actual scientific worth. Any way everyone knows it's bananas at 40°C and not courgettes at 38°C
penance
Arrogant Cock
perfectly correct, neither aluminium or plastic are magnetic
But the ferous materials used in the ink on a CD label are
michaelab
desafinado
I concur. I have never had a time when it did not work and I've taken it around to sceptics houses and greened up some of their CDs and played them in their system and they have all, without exception, agreed that it works.
Michael.
The equipment I have in irrelavent so i wont go there.
Yes I have tried the Green Pen joke
I have two copies of Robert Cray's - Strong Persuader. I tried them on my wife, brother and a friend of my wife. One with and one without the green. Simple single blind test. I just asked them if they heard a difference. I didnt say what i did to the Cd's. until after we did the test. I played the first track through from start to finish.
Now bearing in mind that the psuedo science witters on about read errors. I have already explained that it goes against the design of a CD. But!, read errors are so easily measured. Did I say EASILY MEASURED? Well it is easy, with a capital "E". In fact in most computer diagnositic software that looks after optical devices it is built in. It certainly is on the platform I work on.
So I measured them.
It was on a CD device on an IBM AS400 Model 825 6way. The system was virtually idle. between 2 & 7% busy. But as the diagnostic software is a microcode task, that doesn't make any difference.
The discs where inserted and low level diagnostics where run on both discs. The green one first then the non-green one. Both diagnostic runs were done against the first track on each disc, which was the one I played to the unsuspecting listeners.
I only did this as an academic exercise, but it was very revealing on a number of other parameters which are unrelated to this topic, but that could be another thread.
No I havent tried the de-mag disc. I also havent added self raising flour to my petrol tank, for exactly the same reason.
I am sorry, but I can a nassive difference when my power cables are in courgettes.
penance
Arrogant Cock
so how can you say the demagic is pants when you admit to never having tried it?
penance
Arrogant Cock
your argument is BS tbh
certainly not objective
"i dont want to try it because i read somewhere that it sucks"
Your not really adding any weight to your argument when you just poopoo something and then say you have never tried it
certainly not objective
"i dont want to try it because i read somewhere that it sucks"
Your not really adding any weight to your argument when you just poopoo something and then say you have never tried it
Originally posted by penance
your argument is BS tbh
certainly not objective
"i dont want to try it because i read somewhere that it sucks"
Your not really adding any weight to your argument when you just poopoo something and then say you have never tried it
What a load of rubbish
1) The green pen issue
It goes against the design principle of the CD player
I have even expalined how it all works. Isnt that addind weight.?
PLUS the little fact that it started as a joke shouldnt be overlooked.
2) The de-mag dsic.
It goes against all scientific principles that we know in this little old world of ours.
If these people have made a new discovery then a trip to Sweden and a fat cheque from the Noble institute will follow,
Has one shread of credible evidence been offered as to how this demag disk works.?
You people have been suckered on these two products yoy just cant admit it. £20 for a green pen indeed!!
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence to back them up.
I thought Lee offered some evidence that it did something in reducing the error count
It seems you are not interested in answering my question about what system you have. I will assume that you dont actually have a system and are therefore totally clueless about how to get good sound from a HiFi system.
I shall therefore ignore you from now onwards.
Good Day Sir
penance
Arrogant Cock
ive not been 'suckered' as i havent tried either
but im not closed minded and give the benefit until proven otherwise
whereas your argument is purely based on what you think and without any back up. Just slagging a product and then saying you have never tried it makes you seem somewhat daft
HTH
but im not closed minded and give the benefit until proven otherwise
whereas your argument is purely based on what you think and without any back up. Just slagging a product and then saying you have never tried it makes you seem somewhat daft
HTH
Robbo
The diference between a cutter and a cd player is rather big.
Have a look around the internet. it isnt hard to find some design specs of a CD player.
Just to keep you quiet.I have a Cyrus 8 amp with CD8 and Dynaudio 52SE speakers. Does that let me in the club?
But I have given evidence.
Green Pen
Firstly in the way I have tested the theory, which you still convieniently ignore started at the joke.
I also tried it on others but not letting them know what I had done
But it isnt up to me give evidence as I am not making the outrageous claims that these people who sell these products are.It is gernerally accepted in the world that if you make a claim you back it up. Not one of you can explain how any of this works, nor can the manufacturers.
Interesting that
Have you tried putting Flour in your petrol tank? Why not? If you havent tried it dont knock it.
penance
Arrogant Cock
Ill follow Robo's lead on this, you blatently have no idea and are not worth the time to discuss it.
It is also recognised that to poopoo something you need to have a counter argument as much as they need to prove it works.
The flour/petrol analogy is just way off the mark, and a puril argument.
Have fun in your world!
It is also recognised that to poopoo something you need to have a counter argument as much as they need to prove it works.
The flour/petrol analogy is just way off the mark, and a puril argument.
Have fun in your world!
tones
compulsive cantater
Originally posted by penance
perfectly correct, neither aluminium or plastic are magnetic
But the ferous materials used in the ink on a CD label are
Sorry, Penance, but, unless the ink scene has changed dramatically since I last worked in the field, this is completely wrong. I worked for 20 years in the surface coatings industry, and am very familiar with both pigments and dyes. Most iron compounds are very non-magnetic. Try to attract some rust with a magnet - doesn't work, does it? And that's only the oxide Fe2O3. The only exception of which I'm aware is magnetite, the mixed oxide FeO. Fe2O3, which is ferromagnetic (i.e., able to be permanently magnetised).
It's true that there are magnetic inks, but these are developed for this property and used in applications where the magnetic property matters. They are also horrendously expensive, and would never be used in normal printing as on CD labels.
The chances of there being any ferromagnetic material in the ink on a CD label is, I believe, vanishingly small. Magnetite is black, but everyone uses the cheapest and most universally available pigment of all, carbon black - and that's pretty unmagnetic.
penance
Arrogant Cock
Tones
I bow to your knowledge sir and stand corrected
I bow to your knowledge sir and stand corrected
Of course it is puril
But I said in my original post that you would say it was stupid, because went against the principles of the internal combustion engine
The problem here is you can "poopoo" my idea of putting flour in your petrol because it goes against everything that is reasonable but I can't "poopoo" yours for the same reason.
It is you sir that offer nothing to the argument. I feel a lot better mot having to interact with likes you
If you want to spend your own money on these items of snake oil, please be me guest. You will probably go to a homeopath when you are ill too!
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
I'll go with Tones for once on the Ink and magnetic radiation thing Thats about all I'll give it to Tones the Elder
Stuart, you need to be more relaxed, and appriecate that others will totaly disagree with you & Tones (which has been going on for nearly eternity ) but then we need those checks and balances.
'Sucked' is an imbittered word, much like blue max's eailer posting assults on R/a when he first joined.
I find the green pen works exceptional well, some discs it makes no difference on (usually the rounded edged version), as it does on certain CD players.
I choose to use it, that makes me sucked eh? who man then I'm 100% sucked, hey put flour in tank man
The de-mag disc I also find a useful tool, especialy after performing circuit board altering and component swops, always run the disc through system after that, so thats £12 for the disc and £20 for the pen £32, sucked big and good there, a good night on the piss is?, if you don't like the de-mag, do a tones flog it, you'll re coup most of your outlay, with beer, unless your in champine urine drinker, then maybe a slight problem then.
If you don't agree with it, cool I don't agree with a lot of bollox either, some things are/have no right to or any physical reason why the should work however they do
It's nothing to do with the kit you run either, I've had results with the pen on a daq 3/24?? cyrus 7 and even a tosh 330 dvd player, so trying to use the more money equipment arguement won't wash either.
I personaly did a demo at a large hifi retailer about 4 weeks, with a cd8/8 amp, gr 20's and the 3 people in the demo, were more than convinced on the green pen. (other won't be I'm sure also)
It's also nothing to do with having 'Golden ears' either
2 very good friends of mine came round for an afternoon listening session a few weeks back (we all Blues buffs), one is 58 and played in late 60's band, the other his wife is 52, and a serious music lover of all forms, Chris brought with him a shitty re-master of some manfried mann un-released stuff, instantly the top end hardiness and vocal recession is regonisable, I asked them if they were up for a pen test, they laughed and said yes,
So Chris choose a track, then listen to it a vol level 65, twice, I took the disc out, treated it in front of them, put it back in, played it same vol, I left the room to make a coffee, I came back, I listened to it for the second time, I picked up a cleaner less hard top end and less recessed vocals, (I haven't said anything at this point), Chris & Pam, both said blimey "the sax is more notice-able and cleaner and the vocals are more projected", the sax I missed so, they guys are over 50. Yet I know a lot of guys just don't here a difference. Stu, you just got to accept that some people do hear and other don't. I thought being a instructor, you would be more understanding, than you have shown here
Wm
Thats about all I'll give it to Tones the Elder Stuart, you need to be more relaxed, and appriecate that others will totaly disagree with you & Tones (which has been going on for nearly eternity ) but then we need those checks and balances.
'Sucked' is an imbittered word, much like blue max's eailer posting assults on R/a when he first joined.
I find the green pen works exceptional well, some discs it makes no difference on (usually the rounded edged version), as it does on certain CD players.
I choose to use it, that makes me sucked eh? who man then I'm 100% sucked, hey put flour in tank man
The de-mag disc I also find a useful tool, especialy after performing circuit board altering and component swops, always run the disc through system after that, so thats £12 for the disc and £20 for the pen £32, sucked big and good there, a good night on the piss is?, if you don't like the de-mag, do a tones flog it, you'll re coup most of your outlay, with beer, unless your in champine urine drinker, then maybe a slight problem then.
If you don't agree with it, cool I don't agree with a lot of bollox either, some things are/have no right to or any physical reason why the should work however they do
It's nothing to do with the kit you run either, I've had results with the pen on a daq 3/24?? cyrus 7 and even a tosh 330 dvd player, so trying to use the more money equipment arguement won't wash either.
I personaly did a demo at a large hifi retailer about 4 weeks, with a cd8/8 amp, gr 20's and the 3 people in the demo, were more than convinced on the green pen. (other won't be I'm sure also)
It's also nothing to do with having 'Golden ears' either
2 very good friends of mine came round for an afternoon listening session a few weeks back (we all Blues buffs), one is 58 and played in late 60's band, the other his wife is 52, and a serious music lover of all forms, Chris brought with him a shitty re-master of some manfried mann un-released stuff, instantly the top end hardiness and vocal recession is regonisable, I asked them if they were up for a pen test, they laughed and said yes,
So Chris choose a track, then listen to it a vol level 65, twice, I took the disc out, treated it in front of them, put it back in, played it same vol, I left the room to make a coffee, I came back, I listened to it for the second time, I picked up a cleaner less hard top end and less recessed vocals, (I haven't said anything at this point), Chris & Pam, both said blimey "the sax is more notice-able and cleaner and the vocals are more projected", the sax I missed
so, they guys are over 50. Yet I know a lot of guys just don't here a difference. Stu, you just got to accept that some people do hear and other don't. I thought being a instructor, you would be more understanding, than you have shown here Wm
Last edited by a moderator:
michaelab
desafinado
It's purile because it's akin to suggesting that someone pour treacle into their CD player, something that, like putting flour into the petrol of a car, will clearly damage the CD player or car.
A more reasonable analogy would be those things you can buy that clip onto the fuel lines of a car and supposedly "magnetize" or "align" the fuel molecules and apparently give you better performance and fuel economy. The science maybe pseudo but I won't knock it until I've tried it (which I haven't).
Where is your evidence that the green pen started as a joke? You're the first person who's ever suggested that. It's doesn't go against the principle of a CD player - if you think so then you need to learn a bit more about how CD players work
.The fact remains I've heard it to work over and over and over again in all kinds of systems with all kind of different people listening, many of which thought it was complete bollox to start with. I've done blind tests with it aswell and every time I and others have been able to pick out the marked CD. I don't really care how it works as long as it does. I will add though that the results vary depending on the CD. On some the difference is crystal clear, a night and day change. On others it's very subtle indeed.
What the pen does is remove a lot of the HF glare and digital "hash" that some CDs can exhibit. If, by virtue of the recording or the type of music this is not very evident on the original CD then the green pen will have little or no effect on it.
What the hell is your agenda anyway? Why are you so keen to save us "fools" from spending our money on these things?
Michael.
