Scout's Honour

[SCIDB]

Hi Michael,

Glad you are having fun with your turntable. I hope you can get a phono stage sorted. As for valve ones, the EAR 834 is one too look at. Can be picked up cheap. Not the last word in refinement but can be enjoyable to listen to. Also can be tweaked for better performance.

If you fancy a go with the soldering iron, the WAD Phono stage is a interesting phono stage that will beat the EAR. This comes with a separate power supply.

One to snap up if you can find one is an Audio Innovations P2 valve phono stage. This gives a very step up in resolution from the EAR & very good performance in the bass & treble, giving good life & dynamics to the music. Not very common.

As look at Croft pre amps which have good phono stages so you can use into you current preamp.

Also Audio Note do some stand alone valve phone stages which can be very good.

As always Have fun.


Hi Data,

I have to say bottle, I currently subscribe to the cartridge and fono stage philosophy. I am always sceptical with the ' spend all your money on the source' attitude. I do think it is more complex than that, but do give a bit of leeway with vinyl as they are precision mechanical devices (NOT!! measuring devices!)

The way forward is to spend your money on a good source. This is not always big bucks. It's all down to quality. With turntables, the cost of materials, design, construction & size of market means that new high end turntables are not cheap. But you can get a good turntable for reasonable money, it's just that you can get a better one for more money.

What a turntable has to do on the face of it does not seem complex. It has to measure the groove. The better it does this the better the sound quality. They are precision mechanical device. They are precision mechanical measuring intruments. The problems start when you sit down & design & build one. There are many ways and means of doing this hence the wide range of turntables over the years.

BTW the Audio Innovations Series 200 has quite a good phono stage. I've got one of these somewhere.

SCIDB

 

[bottleneck]

NB Mike - if you want to try a WAD one, they make em in Newport Pagnell if you wanted to hear it..not so far from you.

NNB - I remember I sold my Conrad Johnson phono stage to a guy with a Audio Innovations P2. I prefered my Ear to the CJ of course which was why I sold it.. He prefered the CJ to the P2 and used it instead.... Dean prefers the P2 to the Ear....

ring a ring of roses?!?!?!

I dont get it either !!!!

- I guess as always its down to systems, cartridges, rooms, listening preferences and all that other good stuff. I havent heard a P2 myself though, to be fair, so cant comment on them myself.. I think Definitive Audio have one in ( or had one in).

I tried a bunch of phono stages, but on balance thought the Ear was as good as any I tried.. For the 250-300 you can get them for (and sell them for!) its a good way to get into valve phono stages - but as I know you're finding - the presentation of one to another varies so much.

One mans meat is another mans monkey.

NB I read in a couple of places that the step up transformer in the Ear was its weak point.. so I tried about 2-3 other step up transformers plugged into the MM stage... and yup! that was a total bag of nonsense, there was nothing to pick between them.

NNB
Has anyone on the forum tweaked an 834P? Steve - what did you do to yours?



Have you tried any more yet?

 

[adam]

Anyone tried Graham Slee stages,cheap as chips and good reviews any thoughts?

 

[SCIDB]

Hi Chris,

I thought your Conrad Johnson item was a Nuvistor step up. I have I got this wrong or did you have a Conrad Johnson phono stage before.

As for which phono stage, it's always done to personnal taste. The main problem is getting to hear the options together. Each has it's strengths & weakness.

The Ear is very good but it can be improved. By looking at the circuit diagram, the power supply can be improved, as can the components. Even changing the valves have a effect.

If you do a search on Audio Asylum you can find a load of EAR mods.

BTW My P2 has been modified with the power supply being reconfigured to a Choke input, tweaked with circuit components. I hope to tweak further in the new year.

Transformers can be good or bad depending on quality & if it's matched to the cartridge & pre amp. Again I'm going to have a go at these as well in the new year. I'm starting off with building the WAD phono stage then tweaking it. Later on I plan to design & build a killer phono stage.

All part of the fun.

SCIDB

 

[7_V]

Originally posted by bottleneck
Has anyone on the forum tweaked an 834P? Steve - what did you do to yours?

If that's 'Steve' meaning me, mine came pre-tweaked. It's an old one with separate volume and on/off knobs - non-wood .

It's moving magnet only and I use an outboard Tim de P MC tranny. I will look into the valves and components used when I get back to the UK.

 

[bottleneck]

Originally posted by SCIDB
Hi Chris,

I thought your Conrad Johnson item was a Nuvistor step up. I have I got this wrong or did you have a Conrad Johnson phono stage before.

Hi Dean, yup thats the one. It was a Nu-vistor pre-preamplifier youre quite right.

I believe the guy found enough gain in it to use it solely as a phono stage. Or perhaps he used it instead of the transformer in his P2, but I believe it was the first of these 2.

Anyway, as you say its a crazy world with a million possibilities!

Ive pretty much told myself that when my new and modified pwr amp arrives, it will be followed with a meridian 500 transport... that then will be me sorted forever and a day (I hope) and my system will hopefully satisfy me enough that I can spend money on music and having fun!

Sounds like a good plan to me

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by bottleneck
Ive pretty much told myself that when my new and modified pwr amp arrives, it will be followed with a meridian 500 transport... that then will be me sorted forever and a day

:ffrc: :ffrc: :ffrc:

If only....

Still, these phono stages are a laugh! tried the 834 along with the tube box, and whilst very pleasent, they both left me feeling I was losing too much resolution and detail, particularly at the frequency extremes.

The Linsley Hood is still winning, which is surprising as it is hardly ever mentioned. I will try the Dynavector, as well as maybe a couple more at a more elevated price level. But I am quite happy with the current setup so in no mad rush. Changing the interconnects from the Vpi to Cardas made a huge difference, it certainly loses nothing musically to the outgoing £5K CD player, only falling down on bass resolution and image specivity. Not a bad result for a £1800 combo me thinks, the £3K difference buys a lot of music

 

[bottleneck]

Originally posted by merlin
:ffrc: :ffrc: :ffrc:

If only....

Still, these phono stages are a laugh! tried the 834 along with the tube box, and whilst very pleasent, they both left me feeling I was losing too much resolution and detail, particularly at the frequency extremes.


, the £3K difference buys a lot of music

Valve phono stages are certainly an aquired taste I think. Like you said once, different equipment makes you listen to music differently. A few weeks with a valve phono stage for me changed the aspects of vinyl that I listened out for and enjoyed the most. This is definately going to be different for different people, and perhaps its a greater jump if you havent come from a valve amplification background..?

I betcha dont spend 3k on music!!!

NB I wish we could all club together and open a franchise of FOPP in London. We'd rake it in! (and get cheap music!!!)

 

[sideshowbob]

Merlin, if you haven't already, try a Dino. Detailed, but not clinical. I like mine a lot. For £300 very good value I reckon.

-- Ian

 

[SCIDB]

Hi Micheal,

That is the sort of thing I felt with the Ear 834 phono stage. It does lose out on the extremes & with resolution. The Linsey Hood stage I have seen in various electronic mags but have never heard. Is this the one that is built from a kit?

Hi Chris,

So the CJ Nuvistor is a step up amp. That means it will not have a phono stage in it. i.e. no RIAA equalisation. This would mean that the bloke with the P2 would be using it as a step up instead of the built in transformers in the P2. Or he may have a moving magnet P2 with external transformers.

If the CJ Nuvistor is a step up it can't be used as a phono stage. It's job is to boost the level of a MC or low output MM cartridge to a level that a phono stage can use.


BTW 3k on records can get you some mighty fine music.

SCIDB

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by sideshowbob
Merlin, if you haven't already, try a Dino. Detailed, but not clinical. I like mine a lot. For £300 very good value I reckon.

-- Ian

I will try the Dino, Ian, I just need to get hold of one for a listen. I reckon when I move, I'll invite you all round for a phono stage bake off and then buy one of the winners.

The Linsey Hood stage I have seen in various electronic mags but have never heard. Is this the one that is built from a kit?

That's the one Dean, and I have to say it seems to be holding up well in my setup against many of the better known alternatives. If it has a failing, it lacks a little refinement, but you cannot fault it's enthusiasm, at least not in my humble setup. I think you can find more info over at the Williams Hart web site.

Just out of curiosity, what sort of price plateau do you need to go to to better the best £300-£400 stages? Is it worth doing for a £400 cartridge, or would the money be better spent elsewhere, like with a seperate power supply for the TT or a £1K cartridge?

 

[sideshowbob]

Originally posted by merlin
I reckon when I move, I'll invite you all round for a phono stage bake off and then buy one of the winners.

Good idea. Give me a shout when you're ready. Wouldn't mind having a go on your VPI...

-- Ian

 

[SCIDB]

Hi Michael,

for a big step you would be normally looking at over £1000 new. Things like the Delphini, The Grove, The Dynavector etc. You could find a something 2nd hand or, as suggested before, a 2nd hand pre amp with a good phono stage.

But I would look at the £400 pound mark as the best ones will still do a very good job. At best a better phono stage will improve on the strengths but it could show up weaknesses. At worst you it could show up weaknesses & you may not enjoy the sound as much.

I would spend it on the turntable. If there is a power supply mod &/or platter/ belt drive mods I would look at these first. I would experiment with isolation. Also look at mains quality for the turntable. By doing these you should hear improvements in detail, resolution, drive & dynamics.

This is not to say the a £1000 cartridge would not improve the sound but I do think money spent on the turntable. If you can get your hands on a £1000 cartridge, give it a go. I don't know to much about the VPI range of decks.

If you were thinking of spending big bucks maybe going for a better turntable (new or 2nd hand) is the answer.

SCIDB

 

[joel]

Merlin,
It might be worth your while considering a step-up transformer (into an MM stage). Doesn't sound logical and not especially audiophool, but with the right cart / trans can work very well (and is a popular solution you know where).
VPI are nice decks. I particularly like the interchangable "armwands" and the funky crystal speed controller that looks like it came off a Panastar - which it probably did...
For serious consideration come the next analogue table upgrade.