Shoot first

GAZZ,

Sadly its the namby pamby PC dogooders that have made a difference.

Remember, you can't call a blackboard that any more, even though it is black and a board.

 

I personally have no issue with being stopped unless it was malicious. I do wonder though if the Irish people in general got the same level from backlash from Joe Public as some Asians (Muslims and Non-Muslims) have received. The answer is probably yes.

 

Dev
My father is from Belfast, and yes they did.

 

There you go, I got that right

 

there are indeed questions, and for this sort of thing we need a fullly independant inquiry, not an internal police review or any other limited remit.

a no holds all the facts public inquiry.

sadly the precident is set, that the police may shoot given suspicion.

we don't know all the facts, so can't speculate accurately, indeed, I am rapidly becoming very dubious about the value of tv news, its so short and glosses over lots, just the sensationalilst headlines designed to shock and get attention.

my instincts are this, discounting irrelevencies like benefits.

ok heavy coat in warm weather, gives suspicion of concealment.

not a crime tho

shouted at by plain clothes cops...would you stop in a foreign county if some young guys shouted at you??

probably not.

language? could be compromised.

london, city of 'foreigners', perhaps limited language.

current climate, maximum intensive alert.

should he know about this? perhaps not, the lack of informed people out there is astounding.

so what we have is a guy living in the same block of flats, wearing a heavy coat, limited language? asked to stop by strangers, I don't know if he knew they were cops.

much as I do believe the country is overcrowded, shooting someone if they were an illegal is wrong. if legal, still wrong.

so what do we have? police fired 5 shots? 8 shots? this is why I 'put my head in the sand' for a bit, you can't rely at all on early reports, it all comes out withing weeks.

intent, you bet, 7 shots to the head, close range, total intent to kill swiftly, instantly.

why? severe suspicion and belief he was about to hop it onto the train and detonate his bomb. nothing else could justify such action.

based on what? we don't know yet.

or else the cop panicked.

nevertheless, its not a crime to wear a heavy jacket. so he was killed for runnig from the cops.

Now there are either 2 things that are likely in the wake of a bombing attack, either there would be more swift follow ups to shock totally.

or a lull whilst things go undergound.

nevertheless the cops are incompetant as they got their suspect wrong.

badly wrong, they murdered him.

it was their failing. not his. that is basically terrism under another name.

they will get off,

noone will carry the can.

recommendations will be made

we do not need more, there are plenty, it will not stop innocents being killed.

the met has said sorry, we deeply regret...

BUT

that is the policy, there could be more...

what use is that as an apology? we won't change anything, we stand by our policy.

its an insult.

in america, they fire water cannon first, you would think they would be more gung ho, but they actually have a hierarchy of measures to deal with someone. shoot is a last resort.

here it is clearly first.

if we were to kill an armed burgler, we would go down. without question, they would throw more law at us than they do at a criminal.

I just want to see fairness balance and justice and those in power accountable. I fear we will not.

I hold blair responsible for the war, but I won't go into that again.

why hasn't he and his govt. been suspended and an independant inquiry into the legality of the war?

isn't that reasonable to ask? we as citizens would be subject to that natured inquiry given a disciplinary.

I won't say anything else on that.

if cops are killing unarmed people with a chair leg or even nude in bed, some thing is badly wrong.

they cannot be trusted with guns. and the inquiries cannot be trusted. murder is murder. all I wish is for those responsible for the crimes to be accountable.

If the cops suspected him and were following him, why did they let someone with a big coat get into the underground?

sheer incompetance.

yes its interesting why 'respectable' middle class educated asians are blowing themselves and others up. I believe it has caught on and become 'fashionable' by the spreading of information via the media. I have commented on this before.

We will see more on the nature we are influenced by the media in the decades to come, it is SERIOUSLY powerful and can be a force for control and great danger. I have no proof, just observations.

Just as an aside, did you know advertises use psychologists to do experiments to ascertain what makes people pay attention.

listen to an advert, note the compelling tone, the multi layered soundtrack, you cannot ignore it.

music, voices, 3, perhaps 4 layers of sound.

they intensify the frequencies the ear is most sensitive to, hype the sound up, note how they are louder than the program.

turn the sound off, look how fast the images change, you may get 40 or more 'shots' in a single commercial, fast moving, always moving, gets your attention even with the sound off.

lots more on the lighting, messages, smiley young people....much more to it....

anyway, commercial break over....


the poor ones who immolate themselves, aren't totally to blame, they are the pawns of the ringleaders, the ones who pay for the bombs and get the henchmen to do the dirtywork.

the bosses are the cowards.

these guys have a half decent life, not like some palestinian who has nothing and israeli tanks have flattened the house.

clearly, the poison rhetoric must be powerful psychologically. I don't think we fully appreciate the nature of influencing people.

it won't stop right away, America WAS the target, and Israel.

Israel is really the catalyst, they HATE them, along with the yanks who are their allies, now we are allied with america and went to iraq. that is the centre of it, but it is a web of parts.

Interesting, with the bigley affair, one of the gang said, we know mr kenneth is a good man, but we must make tony blair responsible.

calling him mr kenneth..polite, he still went along and killed a good man, I suspect he was under the infulence of the ring leader.

sadly whilst george dubya and mr blair is around, this will be the state for quite some time, ain't gonna get betta for a bit....

watch out.....

 

Data, murder is a bit strong. It implies intent. I'd think the officer in question is probably having a very hard time living with this tragedy.

As you (and others) say, there are questions to be answered but calling it murder is a bit too strong IMO.

I'm concerned about how distorted the original reports were. Eg, 5 shots in the head, wires hanging from the coat, visa expired etc. etc. All of these "facts" have now changed.

 

I was just pointing out that not only do we 'home grow' our terrorists we 'home fund' them too.
hell why don't we just give out leaflets tell them how to make the bloody bombs and where to place them, that's what the lefties and librials want ya?

 

Fair comment i think

 

Hi Andy,

Simply not true. There are still schools with blackboards. The school I teach at has at least on classroom with a blackboard. I have used it a number of times. The term blackboard was never banned.

Here are some more teachers we use them.

http://www.tes.co.uk/section/staffroom/thread.aspx?story_id=2111353&path=/Primary/&threadPage=7

Over the last fifteen or so years they have been phased out for whiteboards. (less dust and mess)

SCIDB

 

Hi Dean,

I think i'm making a good job of missing the point here.
It was an extreme example of extreme PC, although incorrect.

I reckon i should leave this topic now, made a few booboo's:shame:

 

I think not.

Give it time and the press/police/government/establishment/etc. PR machine will swing into action to make sure that we receive whatever version of events suits their purposes. Everything - on every topic - that reaches the media has been filtered through significant channels of self-interest.

 

without wanting to daliy mailise things

2 of the bombers at least are 'foreign' , here legally, but one of them a convicted mugger.

bristish asylum demands good character which appears to have been overlooked, and the guy was on benefits.

It offends me deeply that someone who this country takes in,gives a home and financial support turns around and calls us all evil and tries to kill us.

then we have to keep him in prison for the rest of his life costing hundreds of thousands, no doubt with gyms, libraries, sat tv, free phone calls.

just send the bugger abroad and leave him to saudi justice.

everyone wants to say it get rid of islamist stirrers. once and for good.

That isn't a daily mail response, its natural outrage at repaying kindness with evil.

Anyway, how do these people who say 'daily mail respone' know what is in the mail, I don't read it. do they?


someting is very wrong with this system. the country has gone far too soft.

asylum is a very kind act, certainly not evil.

(I know our society has issues, serious ones, and in some ways, muslim ones are more 'moral'.

I for one would not mourn the loss of soaps and some of the stuff on telly, etc...)

but that doesn't make me want to kill indiscriminately.

one of the reasons muslims become villified in general is that they don't mix, they stay in their communities, I have found many to be quite pleasant, but by doing this they don't do themselves any favours.
Its almost as tho they are a separate part.
If they wish to coexist, they should mix and if they don't like the laws or state of the country they should choose someplace else.

segragation invites mistrust, misunderstanding, dislike and is the cause of myriad of problems.

 

Oh right, I wasn't aware that we had "Minority Report" technology already where we can tell in advance that someone at school/university learning chemistry or applying for housing benefit was going to turn into a suicide bomber . David Copeland who planted the Soho, Brixton and Brick Lane nail bombs was also "home grown" and "home funded"....but he's white and not a muslim so I suppose that makes it OK?

In any case, if people are on housing benefit it's because they need the money to pay for their acommodation. The tabloid promoted idea that you can just add up benefits received over a 10 year (or more) period and then claim that the resulting £25K or whatever (about £200 a month, won't rent much for that) somehow funded the terrorist operation is utterly absurd.

Quite what you think "lefties and librials" (sic) have to do with any of this I'm not sure

Once again, your post is astonishing in its ignorance.

Michael.

 

I aim to please.

the fact that they hate the west for what ever reason, then have the gor to come here and live of our "hand outs" just to then try and kill us makes me speak out in this way, not many people seem to be bothered by this. For a start in their so called campaign its hypocritical!

At add to this that 2 of the bombers where descendants of asylum seekers also enrages me, we give them a home a future then how do they repay us?

These are the people who want us to fill our country with anyone who applies for asylum, they don't want security, they're against identity cards, they live in some 60's haze where everone is at peace and no one commits crime.

I'm not suggesting we live in a police state, but can't see the problem with keeping check on who is in our country and why they are here.

Our country is wide open to terrorists about time we started closing the net. Prevention is better than cure.

 

here bloody here! well put.

No I don't read the Daily Mail, I don't read any papers. (for obvious reasons!)

 

I say hit them where it hurts -- in the pocket. Yes, I say fine them ! Slap a few £500 fines on them. No more namby-pamby approach and you'll soon find those terrorists creeping back into their holes.

 

Lee - you'd better ask Lt Cdr Data for a BNP application form. Maybe they even have reduced subs for "recommend a friend".

 

How about picking apart their argument rather than just accusing them of being fascists? Would be something of a pleasant change I have to say

 

"In the jungle, lions are with lions and tigers with tigers, and redbirds stay with redbirds and bluebirds with bluebirds. That's human nature too, to be with your own kind. I don't want to go where I'm not wanted." (Muhammad Ali)

The problem isn't people staying in their communities, it is people who view this as a negative and form their own image of what that community stands for. This is why Muslims are up in arms about the bombings because they know they will feel the repercussions as people become suspicious of them. There are two strong images of Muslims in our country at the moment. One is Amir Khan, a fine athlete and role model. The others are the suicide bombers and their accomplices. All are from similar communities but couldn't be further apart in their outlook. Which of these ambassadors do you want to view as a representative of the Muslim people?

Don't expect Muslims to come knocking at your door to offer you samosa's and rugs, that isn't what integration is about. Integration is about standing on the tube together, standing in a supermarket queue together, walking the same streets and living parallel. Don't expect Muslims to tune into Dads Army as I'm sure they don't expect you to tune into Bollywood films. Just respect each others culture and get on with life.