So the mains then

Jools

I agree that there is a lot of hype in the hi-fi trade. Probably more than in most commercial sectors. Purveyors of £1000 mains cable, etc make full use of the Harward Business School mantra, "Perceived Value" As opposed to real value.

The well known "Law of Diminishing Returns" also come into play here.

However, replacing the mains cable that comes with the component is very worthwhile upgrade.

There is a lot of EMI and RFI in the area behind all those electronics. AFTER it leaves the socket. Good shielding will prevent that from entering the system.

At least 1.5 mm core dia will ensure that current supply is not restricted.

Thirdly, some cables filter out the RFI already in the supply. Or you can fit large ferrites at both ends of the cable.

Components also need protection from RFI and EMI. But that is yet another problem to sort out.
 
Paul R, you'd like the ATC owners manual:

[Section on speaker cable, first sentence]

"There is an enormous amount of rubbish talked about speaker cable..."

[Carries on in similar vein]

FWIW I thought that installing a seperate spur was a worthwhile thing.
 
Originally posted by wadia-miester
Now Tom you be careful else cj will be along to pur scorn on your own personal tests, and quote the master ADB, 'Who has forgot more than you'll ever know' meaning moi' to back up his A/B are total load of geratric shoe makers routine.
Are you going to use the same input supply, how are you going to switch them,as switches tend to degrade the sound anyway?
We used (back in the old days) to use a known Power conditioner, a set input lead, and had the 2 outputs with different P/cables on, and swop them between a known amp, that was being power by a sepearte spur and stock lead. should prove enlightening though. Just a though try a Python or king cobra on the Ps Audio, the result is quite scary :eek: WM
Click to expand...

I look forward to the rant:)

I was going to use a set of 45A NC relays and a 3 position rotary switch (A - A+B - B) to ensure uniterrupted power.

My thinking is that although the relays and output lead will have an effect the effect should be the same for both inputs. Thus you will hear the difference between cables even if not the true final sound.

I'd love to try the Python or King Cobra but where can you find someone to let you have them for home demo???
 
Someone said

I feel like im on a forum where ignorant people who slag off things they havent tried keep crawling from under the dirty rug in the corner

:rolleyes: I have tried it otherwise how could I say it doesn't work?

Jesus I sold all this rubbish for the best part of 3 years and it may come as a surprise to you that the commisions on accessories like cables etc were vastly larger than on equipment. Most of the company sales reps have a great line in incentives for selling their latest doh dahs but little in the way of proof.

Wake up and smell the coffee some of it might have a small effect on sound but for most people in the real world it's a placebo, one that I exploited to my benefit.

Best two tweaks I know of are, first, listening late at night cos the background noise is lower and so your system sounds better but most people think this has something to do with the mains FFS, and second, have a glass/smoke of your favorite drink/substance cos it makes 10 times more difference than a mains lead.

Seriously, I don't say these things don't work for people, my point is they work cos you believe it, not cos it has actually really worked, well most of the time anyway...

A final point can anyone at all and I mean anyone, explain how Nordost can charge what they do for cables, I'd love to hear the justification.

I don't claim to be all seeing or knowing but I do know what I have seen and tested on at least 100 occasions and like I say double blind most can't tell...

I refuse to agree with the herd on this and you would do well to think about what a forum is for, perhaps you could look up the words discussion & debate. I don't have to agree with you but it doesn't mean I crawled out from under a "dirty rug".
 
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OK apologies for trhe abrupt statement, but maybe bought on by your aggresive attitude towards what some of us tried and had bennefit from

I do agree with your statement about glass/smoke;)

The cables had a beneficial effect for me and so i cant see how it is all BS tbh
 
Originally posted by Joolsburger
... Seriously, I don't say these things don't work for people, my point is they work cos you believe it, not cos it has actually really worked, well most of the time anyway...
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This must be the hi-fi equivalent of the PLACEBO EFFECT, and is possibly linked to the psychological boost a buyer experiences if they were made to believe the hype - albeit mistakenly - that they are using something effective.
 
How the hell is one supposed to tell the difference then between a real change and a placebo effect? I think if I'd just gone out and spent £2K on a new CDP or other box I might very well, psychologically, want it to sound a lot better than what I had before so how can I tell if the change is real or not?

I'm much less likely to be psychologically influenced if I've spent just £50 on a mains cable.

Anyway, what we "hear" is all in the mind so if some psychological placebo effect is modulating the signals coming from our ears to make things sound better to us then it really *does* sound better, even if it might not to anyone else.

It's the same as people getting cured of illnesses when taking placebo pills. The fact they're cured is of no dispute even if it's not known how it happened. Powerful things, human minds :)

Michael.
 
Arh, the Blue Max syndrome :) that'll be it Mike, you know it can't possibly work, it's just an underlying physocalogical fault with your wallet. sort of 'hifi multi vitamins & royal jelly', it can't possibly be any different. so why bother answering, as we are the 'troubled ones' lets us suffer the mental disgrace of the pitifull affiction with a smile on our faces, a hand on our warm hearts, heads held high, sound in the knowledge, their ignorance can be many peoples bliss. :)
Have you noticed this week a real influx of antagonistic posts, on a small section of the hifi world. I wonder if HFC been down this week at all :rolleyes: . WM
 
Originally posted by michaelab
How the hell is one supposed to tell the difference then between a real change and a placebo effect? Michael.
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Well put simply Michael, the ears should hear what the eyes didn't see:)

Sad thing is that happened to me, and to many others. So the placebo affect is, to use others terminology however crude (;) ) , utter bollox:D

When you have heard the differences without seeing the cables swapped, I think you can safely say that they make a difference. Of course this only applies to some products, sadly there are a lot of charlatans out there peddling their wires, something the average hifi dealer is only too happy to assist in, provided they make top dollar for the effort.
 
One thing i am CERTAIN of WM sir, and can state categorically, without any recourse to banter on the enigma of placebo entities, is that the thing resembling carpet upon which that finely crafted piece of audio equipment is resting in your avatar, is FAR from in 'the neutral zone'.

I presume it has been salvaged from the footwells of Timpys new motor possibly, or grandmas knitting parlour?
 
Originally posted by wadia-miester
Have you noticed this week a real influx of antagonistic posts, on a small section of the hifi world. I wonder if HFC been down this week at all :rolleyes: . WM
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It hasn't escaped my attention :) A lot of people over all of a sudden doing a lot of stirring :mad:

Michael.
 
Originally posted by michaelab
How the hell is one supposed to tell the difference then between a real change and a placebo effect
Click to expand...

Good question. The most compelling evidence that there has been a real improvement comes when you put on a piece of music that you know well - a favourite album you've had and listened to for years.

That indistinct sound somewhere in the background becomes an instrument which you can identify and follow the melody, or you can now make out what the backing vocalists are singing, and how many of them there are.

Cable changes are much more subtle than that IME.
 
Originally posted by cookiemonster
One thing i am CERTAIN of WM sir, and can state categorically, without any recourse to banter on the enigma of placebo entities, is that the thing resembling carpet upon which that finely crafted piece of audio equipment is resting in your avatar, is FAR from in 'the neutral zone'.
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ROTFLMAO :ffrc: :ffrc: :ffrc:

I believe it's a picture he found on the net.....

Michael.
 
Originally posted by michaelab
It hasn't escaped my attention :) A lot of people over all of a sudden doing a lot of stirring :mad:

Michael.
Click to expand...

Maybe Michael you could give the forum an 18 or R certificate and not let the children in:D
 
Originally posted by The Devil

That indistinct sound somewhere in the background becomes an instrument which you can identify and follow the melody, or you can now make out what the backing vocalists are singing, and how many of them there are.
Click to expand...

thats exactly what happened with my new TT:D
 
Have you noticed this week a real influx of antagonistic posts, on a small section of the hifi world. I wonder if HFC been down this week at all . WM

How dare you sir, HFC indeed:mad: !!

The best counter to my comments that I have read is that if the placebo affect is at work the precieved gains are still gains.

I would say if we could find a cheaper placebo that would be good!!

A final note from me regarding all this, Russ and various others make a tidy living with some seemingly dubious products which to be fair he offers on sale or return, I myself debated buying a Trichord Mains thingy on the strength of comments I read here, Eupen has even been a temptation. The reason I didn't is as follows, if I read a good review of a bit of my own kit it seems to sound better for a while.. has anyone else noticed this? We all do tend to believe the "experts" Food for thought maybe.
 
Originally posted by Joolsburger
Have you noticed this week a real influx of antagonistic posts, on a small section of the hifi world. I wonder if HFC been down this week at all . WM

How dare you sir, HFC indeed:mad: !!

The best counter to my comments that I have read is that if the placebo affect is at work the precieved gains are still gains.

I would say if we could find a cheaper placebo that would be good!!

A final note from me regarding all this, Russ and various others make a tidy living with some seemingly dubious products which to be fair he offers on sale or return, I myself debated buying a Trichord Mains thingy on the strength of comments I read here, Eupen has even been a temptation. The reason I didn't is as follows, if I read a good review of a bit of my own kit it seems to sound better for a while.. has anyone else noticed this? We all do tend to believe the "experts" Food for thought maybe.
Click to expand...

Jools, I do believe that if the caps fits wear it :D , Did I actualy point a finger in ANY direction?, I feel more than one poster is being referred too here, not any one single indivdual :eek:
Yes R/A is cj fave person, save for myself, but love him or loathe him, he his a businessman, I'm not sticking up for the guy (i know where some of his products are made and fot the exact £) however, 'ego booster or not' he does offer it S.O.R., which means all you loose if you don't like it is the postage, In my book, far better than buying something you don't like, and get stuck with :rolleyes: .
As for the experts proberbly 5 or 6 on this forum with electronics qualifications, would be classified as experts possibly, I only have a degree in Mech. engineering so thats not me.
As your goodself used to work in a hifi/electrical shop, you should know the score as much as anyone, about 'selling and margins'
The only way in which to prove to your self, is to trial stuff at home for about 2 weeks, then take it out, can you notice a difference, if not well send it back easy.
The eupens, work well on a wide variety of equipment (we don't sell them, nor get commission), and for the small outlay a worth while investment, they don't always work Mr Birkett will testify to that, I don't use them anymore, as I have upgraded, that simple.
The trichord mains conditioners, work very well (I prefer them over a lot of very much more expensive units).How ever I'm considering upgrading my Power block on the Digital side for an Audio Magic mini stealth digital stunning. I do have links with Trichord, so i could just say that yes fair cop, however we could do a poll here and ak all those who have bought Eupens/Trichord P/blocks or any other mains leads for their Honest opinion, and kit used what effect it generated if any?
If you don't buy fair enough, but at least try it, then if no joy well thats cool.
Cookie monster, the 'orginal flooring cover design pattern' was cunningly disguised as such, belying the fact it's realy a sub space transciver array, that been cloaked, but it fooled you
:p
 
Never let it be said that I am a cynic I have ordered a RS mains lead for my amp and I will see how it works out.

As you say nowt to lose.
 

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