The difference between mainstream HIFI, budget seperates, midrange and high end?

Nonsense ?

Where??

What have I said thats incorrect?

Instead of throwing silly adjectives around, just answer that!


As far as test are concerned I think I've said before I have neither the time and certainly not the resouces (I can't afford new kit every few mins, remember?) to travel extensively, thank you.

(I'm not entirely sure why I should be "tested" anyway, for your satisfaction, or otherwise).

Like I say I'm away from this now for the most part but I do wish you would give a slightly more balanced impression on the forum.

 

If you regard my approach as 'pseudo-scientific' then spell out your precise criticisms


Sorry I nearly forgot....

Simply because of your assumption (+insistence!) that science knows everything and is infallible, when clearly it doesn't (certainly in this case lol) ....and it isn''t!!!

"The great thing about knowledge is knowing what you don't know"

A quote from a past colleague; very true.

No one knows everything Rob.

 

This is a straw man argument as no-one has said "science" knows everything. You seem to be suggesting that since perhaps we don't know everything about electrical cables (debatable), we should behave as though we know nothing. Just like your dowsing argument.

What we do know is that no-one has ever been able to tell cables apart in blind testing. This suggests very strongly that cables don't differ.

 

Also, Rob, I think your approach to the pf poll is not a proper one.

I scientific pov would take more of an interest and certainly not view as "worthless".

You cannot, IME, just brush aside the opinions of 170 people (out of a possible 240) merely saying they are "deluded", even if it isn't quite what you wanted to hear.

Like I say, I'm sure your opinion on the poll would take a major U turn had the results been of a different nature.

Anyone else want to come in here??






Thirdly,

"It couldn't possibly turn out any other way.

There is no balanced view where rubbish is concerned, though you can embrace it by all means David."


Neither of these points are sensible.

You are looking at the thing in black and white and things rarely are.





"You dismiss the findings of every single controlled test demonstrating that people cannot hear cable differences."

I'm interested in these controlled tests though, Rob.

Can you post the results for me to see?

 

It's OK, we've already dealt with the poll result, David. Possibly you didn't understand the first time, though.

That a bunch of hi-fi nerds think they can hear cable differences doesn't tell us anything about cables, but it does tell us things about hi-fi nerds.

 

I can and have.

For a recent cable blind test - and I would stress a real test as oposed to an opinion poll - you could start with the one conducted here last year.

For others you can use google like everone else.

If that still fails to satisfy, which of course it will, my offer to give up my time and personaly demonstrate that you are deluded still stands.

 

Non-linearity and dispersion.

Non-linearity can be broken down in to different 'camps' (IMD, HD and FR), but it is still just the same thing.

 

I know

I'm puzzled by such a blinkered view.

As I say, you're obviously only prepared to listen if its what you want to hear.

And what were the results??

No need, Rob.

I'm more than satisfied (from my own pov and amy others, too).

I'm just sorry you and possibly your aquaintance aren't able to hear these things!!

 

You seem to be the modern version of the "Renaissance Man": a multitalented polymath. Not only can you douse for water, but you can hear differences between cables if you can see them.

We are all very jealous.

 

That'll do for me.

 

Rob and Simon,

First, I appreciate your response. Should I assume your list of IMD, HD and FR is complete? Non-linearities seems a bit vague considering the few parameters that science recognizes within the field of audio so I'm just looking for a bit more detail. Would you say your list of specific distortions is definitive and the only parameters requiring adjustment in order to make a Technics receiver or even a Naim 102/HC sound exactly like a Naim 52 or an ATC 150 like an ESL57? If not complete, what other specific distortions would you add to your list? BTW, feel free to take as much time as you need.

regards,

dave

P.S. My late replies are due to a heavy workload for the next 24 hours. I should catch up with you guys @ the same time tomorrow night, but again, no hurry with a response.

 

Amplifiers are not transducers so they have different important parameters.

You might add Excess Phase to the list for speakers, but within reasonable bounds it is shown not to make much of an audible difference.

 

gents - we all know that cables make sweet fa difference.







what we should be spending our hard earned cash is other stuff like compact speakers and Modified DEQs etc...

 

Well, if you get a good impartial dem and like what you hear, yes perhaps you should consider it.

On the other hand, should you buy them because others have, or because of a poll result, or because of the purely subjective opinion of a third party? - perhaps not.

Then again speakers measure and sound quite obviously different, and EQ has a similarly tangible effect on a system, for good or bad.
Cables on the other hand.........

 

Or fourthly beacause some do just sound better than others ....perhaps yes!

 

I wouldn't doubt that speakers and electronics have different, important parameters.

I'm still a bit confused though. It seems a bit odd that we're having trouble precisely defining the parameters that prove we know everything there is to know about perfect audio reproduction or that all amplifiers sound the same. How do we know our assumption is correct?

 

Where are you hoping this will take us? Surely if you want a Mercedes to look and drive like a BMW you change all the parts until you have a BMW? So don't buy a Merc in the first place.

 

How so? I thought I was pretty precise.

 

It appears IMD, HD and FR and other non-linearities are as good as we're going to get for an explanation as to how you can turn a Technics receiver into a Naim 52 preamp and ATC poweramp pack. No worries gentlemen. That reply confirms what I suspected we actually know about audio.

Thanks Simon and everyone. Please consider the matter closed.

regards,

dave

 

I thought we were talking about speakers...