The Power of the Media is Destroying this Industry

merlin's just bitter because he can't sell his wacky kit

(sorry Mike - couldn't resist :devil: ) I think both sides have a point.

IMO, the masses will get a midi/mini system they're happy with. The well heeled yuppies will go to 7oaks with £5K to drop and get an Arcam/MF/Rotel/Kef/B&W/Mission etc. system they know little about and then live with it for the next 20 years and never take any further interest in hifi.

Then there's people like us Whether we have £300 or £30K to spend we know what we're talking about (sometimes) and will search out the best within our budget with much less regard for brand names etc. allthough people starting on this mission will probably stick to what the mags talk about and recommend until they get more confident.

Magazines have to survive and they survive on advertising from the big brands so that's what they talk about. As Tones said - there's such a vast choice of gear it would be impossible for the mags to cover all the small manufacturers and get to listen to everything.

Michael.

 

That would take nearly forever to answer, Data, and I'm not sure that I could do it complete justice, but much of it comes about because we want our food neatly packaged and ready to eat. Fresh food is best, but that's a nuisance to people with busy lives. In addition, as food is grown further and further from the place of ultimate consumption, the tendency is to select those varieties that travel and preserve well. A classic case is tomatoes. Any home-grown tom will wipe the floor with a shop tomato flavour-wise, but they go off very quickly. We're greedy; we want unseasonal fruit and veg, so we pay fortunes in transport costs.

In addition, many flavours are relatively simple molecules - they can be easily identifed them and then synthesise them. And we can go one step further and identify homologues that are even stronger. The cheese and onion flavour in your potato crisps is not genuine cheese and onion, but a flavouring that duplicates it. My office is just down the corridor from the savoury flavour group, and I will often find myself smelling barbecued meat, even though there's no meat and no barbecue! The flavours business is a product of the consumer society; we want things not only to taste nice but also to have tastes that really have no right to be there

 

Fair summary Michael.

Likewise, as may have already been mentioned, there's such a vast choice of gear it would be impossible for the consumer to cover all the small manufacturers and get to listen to everything.

Most of the time i have to admit to being uncomfortable with all of this 'choice', and that applies to every walk of life. As my mother used to say regularly, 'best to keep things simple'.

 

People are free to buy whatever they want but advertising does work and don't forget that some people are really quite daft.

 

So do you think it is better that the mags and dealers artificially limit the amount of kit they review/actively promote to a small group of manufacturers and ignore the others even if they provide far better sound and value?

That doesnt seem like a healthy situation to me and as far as I can tell, the consumer is the one who will lose out.

In a more healthy market, those smaller, less well known companies would rise to the fore and force the bigger ones to either improve their products or face extinction.

 

no i did not mean it in that respect.

I just meant the amount of 'choice' in life generally, including hifi, makes ME 'uncomfortable', for want of a better word right at this moment. But, yes i agree, it is 'healthy' for the 'market'.

I won't digress, because i will end up talking about something far less funny than tomatoes.

 

....my dad grows tomatoes in his greenhouse, and after tasting those, I never want a shop bought one again. They are simply not worth eating. Its like a midi system to separates kind of difference.

I don't think you can win in the choice respect, in some respects, it would be far better if we had all our veggies home grown in season, instead of importing them from afar as chile and south africa....its a crazy idea really think about it, fresh veg coming on a plane every day
and it would taste better...just try the kent strawberries in season.
and too much choice can be a bad thing and confusing.
But then again, when I am limited for choice, I miss the variety.
what does annoy tho' is when the supermarkets only sell the profitalbe stuff, and you can't get some obscure stuff, and there are myriads of apple and potato varieties that we just never see.
I suppose the same with the hifi big brands.

 

Yes indeed, this would certainly seem to have been bourne out in the case of Tom Evans. As Data wrote a couple posts ago on this thread, the price hike on Mr Evans's latest incarnation of his Groove phono stage is not insignificant, and IMO is taking full advantage of the "big time status" that his brand name has now achieved in no small part aided by the fact that his products feature in promient hi-fi journalist's system. Even for existing Groove owners, it costs a cool £2000 for the upgrade. Seems like pi$$ taking of the highest order if you ask me.

 

I had enough of being stuck with great performing unknown brand products, from hifi to photography, I have a fantastic roll film Mamiya, with all the lens and accessories, that I dont use and cannot sell... :cry:

I still took the risk of buying the TAG processor, at least it is from a big, well known company, look at the scare I got...

So I will stick to estabelished brands, like Krell, for peace of mind and resale value, thanks... :MILD:

 

and henry actually owns a tead product, too.

nice avatar BTW, henry

Its a little bit like celebrity culture in general, I suppose it is cos its the media, hifi mags deciding who should be the stars and celebrities, and relentlessly plugging and endorsing their stuff, till you see their name everywhere.

I'll bet a lot of them haven't paid for them and have them on extended loan, too.

a 2k7 price hike for a psu upgrade is downright robbery and extortion whatever way you look at it, and remember he is not a big company with lots of costs, basically a glorified tweeker. Apparently, he owns a shitty old ford granada, too. what does he do with all this cash he gets then?

 

I suspect with Naim, they're just charging what people are willing to pay. You can't really argue with that...

Dunc

 

hmmm..possibly, I suspect its more, wow it costs 5k, must be good, i have to have the best, OMG, the next model just come out is 11K raptures, wow this must be the best ever, incredible, its so much better than the other....at least with ATC, its pricy, but you get a lot for your dosh,

The xtrnal psu to the eikos is charged at £600, inside, its 2 £10 transformers, the same on a few capactiors, and a few diodes, a case and a lead. I rest my casel as it happens, the circuitry it powers does benefit a great deal

 

I dont know what its like in Portugal, but the depreciation on new Krell kit over here is horrendous!

 

This is true, but only a lowly Iso-HR phono stage. IIRC, I'm sure you made a passing remark not so long ago on this forum about the minimal differences between the standard Iso and the HR version?

I have yet to be accused of being Muppet!!

 

Henry, you muppet

 

Cheers Paul!

Has anyone ever called you a tit? Oh yeah, I think that's what Bub implied in another thread (after you called him a w***er)!!

 

All tom evans circuits are pretty much identical, the iso has the same topology as the hr, just differnent opamps and posh resistors. same with the groove, the argo preamp is almost the same, as is his latest vibe pre. I am guessing, but on past record, they are all pretty much identical.

 

Data, now's there's a surprise

 

Like everything, but there is always someone wanting to have one... :MILD:

 

Which just really goes to prove the point Antonio don't you think.

What kind of a prat buys hifi based on the "positive" reputation of a brand. It's particularly the case with Krell, because there is just as large "negative" reputation, it's just the sheep don't see it in the stores or magazines.

Sadly the kind of idiot we are talking of makes up the majority of the hifi buying public, and until such time as some creative retailers make it trendy to buy from them, then the situation will persist and really good sounds will become a thing of the past