You are correct as I was not referring to the ICON line only those built in China, which is probably why ICON do what they do over here!Zylog said:
Thinking of going valve
- Thread starter MikeS
- Start date
Thanks for advice
Many thanks for all your advice - much impressed by the friendliness of the group! Looks like I should maybe look at Icon Audio products, or perhaps the Edenlake/Ming-Da 368-B recommended by rsand. This one looks like quite a beast (25kg weight, KT88s) - anyone know how it would compare to the similarly priced Icon (EL34+triode switch)? ListeningEar refers to the fact that China souced amps may be 220V - is this a significant problem (does 240V run the valve heaters too hot or something)?
Thanks again
Mike
Many thanks for all your advice - much impressed by the friendliness of the group! Looks like I should maybe look at Icon Audio products, or perhaps the Edenlake/Ming-Da 368-B recommended by rsand. This one looks like quite a beast (25kg weight, KT88s) - anyone know how it would compare to the similarly priced Icon (EL34+triode switch)? ListeningEar refers to the fact that China souced amps may be 220V - is this a significant problem (does 240V run the valve heaters too hot or something)?
Thanks again
Mike
bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
just speak to cattylink (www.cattylink.com) you can order the amp you want with any transformer the factory stocks (on the products I spoke to him about ming da/consonance).
why not try a WAD kit6550 £630 or so delivered
my kit replaced an mf xp100 - xas100 (bi amp) and a cyrus aca7.5- apa 7 (bi amp)
and it knocks them both into a cocked hat
i can't think of a way in which the performance of the WAD is bettered by the ss amps. (except the lack of blue led)
you do have to build it yourself but it is relatively easy and you are not adding the overheads of international shipping or packaging to your purchase.
my kit replaced an mf xp100 - xas100 (bi amp) and a cyrus aca7.5- apa 7 (bi amp)
and it knocks them both into a cocked hat
i can't think of a way in which the performance of the WAD is bettered by the ss amps. (except the lack of blue led)
you do have to build it yourself but it is relatively easy and you are not adding the overheads of international shipping or packaging to your purchase.
steve shiels
steve shiels
about 7 or 8,000 in all.. alot are not audio..jonjin said:Mmmmm... 1000 valves. I might need to ask your advice about tube rolling! Any chance I can borrow some of them?
JJ
what valves do you use?
are you local .? I'm not too keen to post them...
technobear
Ursine Audiophile
Sorry to spoil the valve-fest, but can I ask why you are considering going this route. What changes are you hoping to bring about?
Looking at your system, I would say that the CD player is the weak link. It may be one of the best at that price point but it's a far cry from the likes of the Arcam CD192 for example. I think you should try a better CD player (i.e. borrow one) before you change the amp or speakers. Try to borrow an Alpha 9, CD23, or CD192 for best effect although a CD93 or CD33 would also show you what you are missing.
Adding a valve amp to this system looks to me like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Looking at your system, I would say that the CD player is the weak link. It may be one of the best at that price point but it's a far cry from the likes of the Arcam CD192 for example. I think you should try a better CD player (i.e. borrow one) before you change the amp or speakers. Try to borrow an Alpha 9, CD23, or CD192 for best effect although a CD93 or CD33 would also show you what you are missing.
Adding a valve amp to this system looks to me like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
TubeMan
The K-Tel Beat Goes On!
technobear said:
Oooh!
Referring to Mike's music system as a sow's ear when he's new to the forum is a great way to influence his decision making.
Now as Max Bygraves might say - I wanna tell you a story.
For years I subscribed to the "source first" hedgemony peddled by the hi-fi press and was an avid reader of "Christ" Frankland in the "Flat Response" and later in Hi-Fi Review"
I went through thousands of pounds over the years eventually ending up in 1993 with:
LP12, Ittok, Karma, Arcam Delta 170.3/ Black Box 3, Linn Pretek/twin Powerteks and Keilidh bi-amped speakers wired with LK400 liner mooring rope speaker cable.
And to complete the cred I had all the in discs -
"Bop City" - Ben Sidran
"Alone but Never Alone" - Larry Carlton
"Me Myself I" - Joan Armatrading
"Slave to the Rhythm" Grace Jones (you know the drill)
These records pinned me to the wall with their firecracker dynamics, teeth rattling bass, metronomic precision and sheer in your face presence.
Trouble was, the other 400 records in my collection were almost unlistenable and CD from the then top-of-the-range Arcam Transport DAC was the sick joke "Christ" and Ivor said it was all along.
"You need an Ekos/Lingo/Troika" said the dealer. "Oh and a Naim 52/250 and CDS CD player will solve your CD problem"
Right said Fred!
Redundancy put an end to this madness and the system had to be sold off
I now have a much more modest system comprising:
Roksan Radius 5/Nima Unipivot, Denon DL103, ProJect Tube Box Vinyl section
a "mere" Sony CDPXB930 CD player I got cheap from Richer Sounds
Icon Stereo 40iSE valve amp and a lovely KEF KMS 2002 Sub/Sat speaker set-up
Adding the valve amp to replace a MF XA1 integrated let the last piece of the jigsaw drop into place.
I'd been there, got the T shirt and there was no way I was going down the spend thousands on the source route ever again.
As I said in my first post on this thread the sound is simply fabulous. I can play anything I want to without worrying whether it is going to sound any good. Shouldn't a good music system give you access to your whole collection?
Yes, some recordings are far better than others but the poorer ones don't send me screaming from the room and I can listen to both vinyl and CD with equal enjoyment.
So Mike if you want to change the amp, do it you won't regret going for valves. There's more than one way to skin a cat as I have found out.
BTW I downloaded Ben Sidran's "Bop City" from iTunes yesterday for £6.81 and burned it to CD.
It's still a great album after all these years.
"Christ" was right about that I suppose.
Cheers. :MILD:
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technobear
Ursine Audiophile
TubeMan said:
I suppose you could read it that way but that's not really what I meant. I simply meant that changing the amp for a valve one won't take away the harshness inherent in cheap CD players. A CD player from the next rung up, such as those I have mentioned, will bring a greater benefit for the amount of cash being considered. It would also make a later change to valve amplification much more worthwhile.
Maybe, but I was thinking in terms of reducing harshness and I think there is more bang to the buck to be had upgrading the CD player. The CD73 is not smooth enough to make a swap to valves worthwhile at this stage. Hearing is believing. Try it!Anex said:
TubeMan
The K-Tel Beat Goes On!
Technobear
OK I take your point.
It's just that in my experience ploughing substantial amounts of money into the source can and will unless you are very very careful, result in an ever increasing spiral of expenditure benefitting no one except the dealers and manufacturers who sell the gear.
I mean the CD73 at 400 quid ought to be decent enough to sound really nice through valves.
My Sony CD was £300 full price when new although I only paid £120 from Richer Sounds. It sounds anything but harsh.
The excellent amp and good speakers allow it to give of it's best without showing it up.
I believe good system building is all about balancing the components so that the sum becomes more than the parts and if you are working it that way round then the amp assumes equal importance with the rest of the gear.
It's an age old debate but no less relevant even now.
OK I take your point.
It's just that in my experience ploughing substantial amounts of money into the source can and will unless you are very very careful, result in an ever increasing spiral of expenditure benefitting no one except the dealers and manufacturers who sell the gear.
I mean the CD73 at 400 quid ought to be decent enough to sound really nice through valves.
My Sony CD was £300 full price when new although I only paid £120 from Richer Sounds. It sounds anything but harsh.
The excellent amp and good speakers allow it to give of it's best without showing it up.
I believe good system building is all about balancing the components so that the sum becomes more than the parts and if you are working it that way round then the amp assumes equal importance with the rest of the gear.
It's an age old debate but no less relevant even now.
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steve shiels
steve shiels
I use an early denon dvd player as a source through my valve system.. it sounds really good....
at a recent 'meet' we tried a niam cds.. ( around 2.5k) on my system.. the sound was a little more forwards but we all prefered the DVD player to it(on my system)
most amps filter too much out of the signal as do most speakers
.. so a 'better' source may sound like a big change.. but the amp and speakers can have much more of an influence
my view is that most modern cd players are very good..
much better in comparison to most amps and speakers
so my view is a good amp and speakers system
is likely to have more influnce than the cd player
in the days of when i used solid state i had a different view!!
I also once had a audiolab 8000s..
at a recent 'meet' we tried a niam cds.. ( around 2.5k) on my system.. the sound was a little more forwards but we all prefered the DVD player to it(on my system)
most amps filter too much out of the signal as do most speakers
.. so a 'better' source may sound like a big change.. but the amp and speakers can have much more of an influence
my view is that most modern cd players are very good..
much better in comparison to most amps and speakers
so my view is a good amp and speakers system
is likely to have more influnce than the cd player
in the days of when i used solid state i had a different view!!
I also once had a audiolab 8000s..
My Arcam Sow's Ear CD Player
Mike
Ouch! So sorry, I am not worthy to pose an innocent enquiry, will post no more till I get a £1000 CD player! No, seriously I have other reasons for wanting to change my Audiolab at this point, like wanting to use it somewhere else. Not all upgrades get done in a logical sequence, and if I do change the amp, I want something I can live with for some years to come, and will survive upgrades of other components. As to why I am thinking about valves, perhaps it's the massive difference in tonal quality I can hear between a solid state and a valve guitar amp (that's on clean, I know valves are primarily used for smooth/sweet distortion). To be honest, and maybe it's just down to my cloth ears, I have heard more expensive CD players etc and while marginally "better" I've never felt paying double the price for. I use my equipment to listen to music on. When I've had the new amp for a few weeks I hope I won't really be concentrating on the equipment but just using it to listen to music, and maybe enjoying the music a bit more. I'm not listening to see if I can hear the second violinist from the left cough at 15:21, it's the whole piece I'm interested in, the overall emotional impact, rhythm, tonality and atmosphere. Several helpful members of this forum have encouraged me that a valve amp may be beneficial in this respect, and I think I'll try it, of course I may be totally wrong. Let you know..
Mike
Hello Zylog, I sent you a private message.
I was thinking of moving over to valves for the main system, but have been really uncertain whether to go valves or stick with my planned purchase of Active ATC 50's. Any views?
Has anyone heard Art Audio valve amps with LV OBX-R2's? In fact, how do professional studio monitors compare to the OBX-R2's when powered by valves? Oh God, how am I going to make a decision!
Well, to speed things up I'm planning on buying a valve amp for my bedroom system, hopefully with some cheaper LV's. Best £1000 valve anyone?
I was thinking of moving over to valves for the main system, but have been really uncertain whether to go valves or stick with my planned purchase of Active ATC 50's. Any views?
Has anyone heard Art Audio valve amps with LV OBX-R2's? In fact, how do professional studio monitors compare to the OBX-R2's when powered by valves? Oh God, how am I going to make a decision!
Well, to speed things up I'm planning on buying a valve amp for my bedroom system, hopefully with some cheaper LV's. Best £1000 valve anyone?
bottleneck
talks a load of rubbish
PMR - living voices and ATC's are chalk and cheese.
you really have to hear both.
For a good amp to go with LV's - Theres an Audio Note Meishu on www.audiophilecandy.co.uk for £1100. Its a beautiful single ended integrated amp. It would sound great with living voices or other efficient speakers.
Just one good amp of many, but its a nice one.
you really have to hear both.
For a good amp to go with LV's - Theres an Audio Note Meishu on www.audiophilecandy.co.uk for £1100. Its a beautiful single ended integrated amp. It would sound great with living voices or other efficient speakers.
Just one good amp of many, but its a nice one.
I would love to try a valve integrated but it would need to have at least 6 line-level inputs phono would be ideal too but would also consider an outboard phono stage, pre-outputs for connecting addional power amp (s) or subwoofer in stereo mode.
I would need this in a very economical package to replace a Musical Fidelity X-A2 integrated, which offers all of the above as well as a very good level of performance for the sale price I paid for it
Standmount speakers I have are 89dB.
This is purely a wish list to give me an idea of what's out there. I can not afford to change what I have now, so purely window shopping!
Amps I have heard previously and loved were the KR Antares (all models), Kronzilla (but they are way out of my price leage), Sophia Electric with the 300b Princess tubes.
Suggestions anyone?
I would need this in a very economical package to replace a Musical Fidelity X-A2 integrated, which offers all of the above as well as a very good level of performance for the sale price I paid for it
Standmount speakers I have are 89dB.
This is purely a wish list to give me an idea of what's out there. I can not afford to change what I have now, so purely window shopping!
Amps I have heard previously and loved were the KR Antares (all models), Kronzilla (but they are way out of my price leage), Sophia Electric with the 300b Princess tubes.
Suggestions anyone?
MikeS said:
I think your making the right decision changing the audiodrab first.The valves should rekindle your music collection, then if you choose to change cd player later I reckon you'll appreciate the change more.
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PMR,
PM reply sent. I am using LV speakers and using them with the Icon amps, seem to be a match made in heaven. As you know I started with the Icon S40i and moved on the MB25's and LA3 and that synergy still holds. I never dreamt I would be upgrading only after five weeks. (I am sure that other valve amps of a similar design would provide that synergy but I simply prefer the Icon Audio amps, they suit my ears and system}
I now am saving for a valve phono preamp to replace my Linn Linto. I have heard that Icon are developing one so I will certainly audition one of those.
PM reply sent. I am using LV speakers and using them with the Icon amps, seem to be a match made in heaven. As you know I started with the Icon S40i and moved on the MB25's and LA3 and that synergy still holds. I never dreamt I would be upgrading only after five weeks. (I am sure that other valve amps of a similar design would provide that synergy but I simply prefer the Icon Audio amps, they suit my ears and system}
I now am saving for a valve phono preamp to replace my Linn Linto. I have heard that Icon are developing one so I will certainly audition one of those.
