What price the big steps ?

And you win todays star prize !
The very speaker that started this train of thought in the first place (no that's not the prize, it was a figure of speech)

Anyway, only had a brief listen and they were connected to a crate full of Christmas lights (the nice man said it was an amplifier, not sure if I'm falling for that one) but yes I liked the sound a lot, I even like the way they look, definately want to go back for a proper dem.

The sum total of my knowledge of electrostatics is that the first, and possibly last, Hi-Fi comic I bought as a yoof had a picture of some Apogees on the front. They went straight to the top of my 'when I'm a grown up list'. I think I'm right that:
1. They went out of business
2. I still couldn't afford them

so any pointers on something more current/less exotic would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

Duevels are good. Look daft though.

I don't think it has much to do with how much you spend, especially when you factor in the secondhand market (good speakers don't have to cost an arm and a leg, unless you're after something both very good and approximately full frequency, that always seems to cost a bit). I definitely don't believe that an £8K CD player is certain to be significantly or even minimally different to a £200 CD player.

-- Ian

 

I doubt it. Sonic performance of CDPs reaches a plateau somewhere in the £500-£1000 region IMO. After that what you're paying for is cool design, image, looks, "battleship" build quality etc.

Michael.

 

Probably right Michael. It is unlikely that a cheap home made system or midi system will be able to exploit the differences further up the price ranges

 

You may doubt it, but you'd be wrong, having compared a few around £1200 then jumped to circa£4k-£5k, the difference was quite obvious, the only one I was dissapointed in was the Cary 200/24 or whatever it's called, it was no better than the cheaper players, but are you telling me a cyrus cd8 sounds the same as a wadia? If you can't or won't hear it that's not my problem. Scepticism can be taken too far.

 

merlin, if that was an attempt at a comment on the rest of my system (which you've never heard) it's a pity that you've been reduced to "my system's better than yours" bickering. Run out of arguments have we?

FYI the most expensive CDPs I've heard (most recently the £12K Reimyo CDP-777) were not in my system but in one's costing an arm and a leg.

 

I see, it's no longer opinion is it. It's now fact? Right or Wrong?

Especially if it concerns kit that you own

Michael.

 

Michael,

I never said mine was any better

Why so defensive about the whole "knock it up at home" ethos?

 

If you think about it, there's no good reason why the differences between most CD players should be anything other than subtle. They mostly use the same small selection of DACs and transports after all. And it's surprising how many expensive players use bog-standard opamp output stages too.

Some players do sound a bit different. Wadia, the older Naim players, mine (obviously). No doubt there are others. The differences don't seem to have much to do with price though.

-- Ian

 

Apogees are not electrostatic, they are ribbons - different principle but not sure how different they sound as have never heard a pair of them either. Ribbons are more rare than electrostatics. Can't think of anyone who makes them currently, possibly Analysis who I think are based in Greece?

You can get a good pair of 2nd hand electrostatic Quad ESL-63s for around £1000. They are still in business and still producing electrostatic speakers, the 988 which I have is an updated version of the ESL-63. They are not small and need some space.

http://www.shahinianacoustics.com/ make upwards firing speakers a bit like the Duevels, but without the baffle to spread the sound through 360'. I think their cheapest models start aound £1000 or over.

Basically, below £1000 I don't think there is much apart from cones in boxes.

 

Totally agree with Ian.

merlin - your last post makes no sense. When have I been defensive about DIY?

Michael.

 

Mike,

Had one of these a few months back, see waht all the fuss was about, hum I believe you can accquire them for £7k from discounting dealers some where in the uk
Great if you like female vocals, bad news if you like music and bass, I reckon every one that owns one should jump on the nos bandwagon NOW

 

Well I did say my knowledge was limited !

'They are not small and need some space. '

would 7.5 x 4.5 m suit ?

Do Magneplanar (sp ?) fall into the same category ?

 

None of my post make any sense to you - why pick out the last one

 

SSb I might agree with you that differences are not allways price related, but there are differences, My player (not because I own it mike) is different, it uses I2S bus, not many others do, cdm 12 pro transport, devoid of any phillips electronics, optimised output stages which are far "bog standard", 7 seperate power supplies, all these things go to making it sound different.

Mike, my player does sound different to others that I tried, that's why I bought it, didn't buy blind, it's a case of chicken and and egg, your suggestion is that I'm defending ny kit, coz I bought it, that is not the case I bought it coz it sounds different, IMHO you are making a bold statement saying they all sound the same more or less, this is doing your credibiity no good, (leaving the way open to insults from Merlin)there are huge differences, yes £1k players get most of the details and sound outa the cd, but when you spend more on better optimised players, the WAY in which those details are heard is what makes the difference.

If you can't or won't hear it, it's ypour loss

 

Whatever

 

Magneplanar are ribbons too.... that's all I know about them!

The size of room you've got would be fine for electrostatics, that's a fair bit bigger than mine.

But it more a question of space around the speakers, Quads need a decent amount of space behind them to breathe properly, at least 1m or a bit more, otherwise the dipolar output will cause problems. Can you get the speakers that far out from the walls and still have domestic harmony?

 

have to second analoguekid, when i demoed a load of cd players before i bought my wadia, even my wife who had no idea what any of them cost (or even has any interest in what she refers to as my sad little hobby....) immediately dismissed the "cheap" naim cd5 as not being any good in comparison the rather more dear players....

she hates me spending money on my hifi, and even she said to buy the wadia... even when i explained that it cost almost 3 times as much.

that, for me, "proved" that there is a difference.

 

There are differences in CDPs and DACs, some of them larger than others. What I meant was that the differences have little correlation with price above a certain level. For example, many people (myself included) regard the DAC64 as among the best digital sources available, even with a £200 transport. That's a total of £2160, which is relatively cheap compared to what is available.

Leave aside my DAC as it's DIY so a price comparison is unfair but there are many who believe the 47 Labs Shigaraki system to be among the best available. New in the UK (inc. Shigaraki transport) that's about £2.5-£3K, again, not a lot compared to the £10-20K CDPs that are available. The DAC on its own can be had for about $900.

Michael.

 

why didn't you say that in the first place, there are great differences, some better some worse, but I'spose it all boils down to what you like, and wether you think the asking price is worth it.