You when things are bad when...........

Originally posted by stebbo
The perception is that the "hifi" dealer is for the AUDIO GEEK. The public go to the electrical superstore.
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Interesting. In the days before I bothered with HiFi I must say my impression of dedicated HiFi shops was that they were with far more money than me; the concept of any sort of 'geekyness' never entered my head. I also don't think it does for most people to be honest. I would have thought people's general perception of say a £10,000 HiFi would be similar to most people's view of a £50,000 car.
 
Originally posted by stebbo
That brings to mind the "gramophone" sketch on Not the Nine O'clock news about 20 years ago.
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...which I happen to have a copy of in Real Audio here - probably breaking a bunch of copyright laws.....enjoy :)

Michael.
 
merlin,
the only thing i can see is that the manufacturer in question is allowing beleagured dealers a chance to sell their kit without all the inventory overheads and other expenses that other manufacturers seem to insist on. in the current climate i'd say this was a good thing for all concerned.
in a thread on the naim forum one of the naim honchos states that naim has increased turnover by 45% in the last 3 years...

michael,
that sketch is only funny because it's true.

cheers


julian
 
I think the general public just see HIFI as an out of date 1970's thng. They thing we spend all our time adjusting cartridges and growing a beared. They also probably think we spend our time trying to solve complex algebra in c++. In otherwords they think HIFI is for geeks.

I am not saying it is true but the public just seem to class things they don't understand as geeky. This why computer programmers are often seen as geeks. Which is wrong because I know some pretty cool programmers who are not at all geeky.

I guess the public don't like salesmen pouncing on you which is what happens the second you walk into a HIFI shop. Richer Sounds are so sucesfull because they say look "you don't need to spend £1000's if you buy your system here" etc.

Another reason the general public don't like HIFI seperates is because they can be diffcult to wire up, mine takes at least an hour to wire from scratch.
 
Originally posted by amazingtrade
Another reason the general public don't like HIFI seperates is because they can be diffcult to wire up, mine takes at least an hour to wire from scratch.
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Possibly it's more that people might be worried that they wouldn't know how to wire one up? Even mini-systems are going to require you to connect up speakers, so all we're actually talking about is plugging in one pair of interconnects per source component, and I doubt many people would think that would take very long?
 
But when your HIFI is placed on a very heavy shelf with no rear access it is hard to get too. Also I can't afford banana plugs so I have bare wire going into the terminals which makes it hard. Especialy as I am using cable to link the bi-wire ternminals instead of the freebie links.
 
AT - an hour to wire up your system? You must be kidding! Just how many cables do you have :eek: ?

I'm sure I could wire up my stereo system and my AV system (3 extra speakers + pre-outs to stereo amp + all SCART and digital audio connections and other bollox) from scratch in about 5-10 mins.

Michael.
 
It's easy to make the mistake that because we're all music lovers who also like hi-fi toys, you have to like hi-fi toys to like music. I know plenty of music obsessives who have no interest in hi-fi at all and are very happy with midi systems. Most of them are musicians, a breed who seem largely resistant to "audiophilia".

As an aside, my two regular dealers both seem to be doing reasonable business at the moment, but to a declining number of people. They're mostly selling expensive kit to a small market of the very well-heeled. The budget and midrange sector is a declining part of their business. Prepare for the mainstream of two-channel audio to become even more expensive than it currently is.

-- Ian
 
Originally posted by amazingtrade
But when your HIFI is placed on a very heavy shelf with no rear access it is hard to get too. Also I can't afford banana plugs so I have bare wire going into the terminals which makes it hard. Especialy as I am using cable to link the bi-wire ternminals instead of the freebie links.
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I wasn't actually questioning how long it took you (although an hour does seem excessive! Understandable though if you're talking about getting everthing out of boxes, set up, and the cables tidied away). Somebody setting up a first seperates system is likely to have a lot less to do than you though.
 
Originally posted by sideshowbob
The budget and midrange sector is a declining part of their business. Prepare for the mainstream of two-channel audio to become even more expensive than it currently is.
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I haven't been around this HiFi business long enough to really know, but are places like Dixons now selling less seperates than they used to? My impression it that they used to sell more, giving people a simple first step into seperates HiFi, and then moved on to 'proper' HiFi shops when they next came to upgrade.
 
My local Dixons doesn't sell any separates at all any more. It had a go with DAB tuners earlier in the year, but even those have now gone (replaced by the new generation portable DABs). The furthest up the ladder they now go is Denon midi stuff. The rest is all AV. As recently as 18 months ago they were still stocking a small stereo separates range.

-- Ian
 
It's surprising how daunting system setup is to the non-technically minded (i.e. most people). They are terrified of getting it wrong. These are the people who, when they buy a TV, get the shop to come round and install it! My parents are a prime example. When they move house they draw diagrams and puts sticky labels on every lead because they won't otherwise be able to figure out how to put the system back together again.

The comment about hif shop windows is a good one. Last time I walked past Audio Excellence in Bristol (admittedly a while ago) they had a pair of Wilson Benesch Arcs in the window at £4000 a pair. Well that's really gonna pull in your average Joe Public isn't it :rolleyes:

Richer Sounds have the right idea when it comes to attracting Joe Public. Every month their adverts feature ready made systems complete with wires, stands, etc. at reasonable (i.e. midi system) prices. Just take it home, wire it up, and enjoy superior sound quality. Contrast this to almost any other hifi shop!

Actually, thinking about what Richer Sounds has to offer at the budget end of the market, it really doesn't make much sense to go anywhere else. No 'proper' hifi shop is going to be able to compete with a complete hifi system for £300 which is easily achieved at Richers. In fact even at double that amount, if it were my money and I wanted £600 worth of new separates, I would read the reviews and head for Richer Sounds.

The comment about musicians is a good one too. I know several musicians who listen to mini-systems, albeit Sony's or Denon's. They don't give a toss about imaging or soundstage. They are listening to the music. It wouldn't matter if it was mono! In fact, the way most of them are set up, they might as well be mono.
 
Originally posted by technobear
It wouldn't matter if it was mono! In fact, the way most of them are set up, they might as well be mono.
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I'm sure this is true of the vast majority of music systems throughout the country. It might be argued that the advent of home cinema, which is increasingly now getting people to at least put speakers a TV's width apart and sit vaguely in front of them, is finally going to get more people to appreciate stereo recordings ;) .
 
Antother good point Chris (the mono thing). A mate of mine has an Arcam Alpha 8SE CDP and Arcam Alpha 9 amp - not exactly budget gear but he's got it playing through a pair of Bose Accoustimas speakers :cry: and their position on the shelving in his living room according to aesthetics as much as anything else and as a result there's not a single seating position in the living room which is in a remotely central location with respect to the speakers :rolleyes:

The number of houses I've been to where I've played "find the hidden speaker" :D is beyond counting. These people really don't care. (EDIT: and I don't mean that in a bad way).

It's like my music journo friend who I mentioned once before on GH. He has an old Technics "separates" system and has one speaker in the living room and one in the kitchen!

Michael.
 
Interesting discussion.

I think that high end two channel audio will start to head back to its roots whereby we end up with a number of very small one man bands hand making making esoteric kit as a labour of love and then direct selling to end users. Hifi dealers will become more multichannel orientated and the best 2 channel kit will not be available from these outlets any more.

I fear that many of the existing high end traditional 2 channel companies wil go to the wall.

Robbo
 
I have a mate from uni that bought some £200 B&W Speakers for his Yamaha AX497(?) Amp he paid for a small fortune for. It turns out he is running these B&W speakers aslongs side his £50 creative labs pair!! I was slightly flaberblasted when I he told me this in a casual conversation about HIFI specs.

As for Boss well it gets boyond a joke when you into a bar and think this music sounds a bit compressed and screemfull, you look up at the ceiling and nearly always find Boss speakers. Where as if you think it sounds ok you look up and find anything other than Boss even Ariston!.

My main problem with my HIFI system at the moment is that the speakers are not far apart enough. However there is no practical way round this given the size of my small bedroom.
 
A symptom of Naim's positioning into the mainstream is their strong alliance with Audio T, upmarket box shifters, whilst a number of small specialists have either had the plug pulled or pulled it themselves.

A severe problem for small dealers is that when a customer trades in a Naim system for an equivalent or better Dynavector system or something similar its the dealer who has to give the customer money and not the other way round.
 
alex,
so dealers make money when they sell naim and loose money when they sell dynavector sounds like another incentive to stock naim (aside from the superior sound quality of naim that is) ;)
but seriously the dealer in question will make his money back when he comes to sell the traded in naim kit - which isn;t usually slow in shifting as long as it's boxed, in reasonable condition and is olive style. if it's not then the dealer should know his onions and pay less for it. i really can;t see the problem.
cheers


julian
 
Originally posted by wadia-miester
One of the very top men, at a very well known long established British hifi company has been in
the home counties this week, *offering* various *quality reatail outlets* that don't stock there
products a once in a life time change to be accepted in to the fold ;) for zip :eek: yes no
minimum order at the moment & get this they don't have to stock anything either :D I have it on
good authority 2 shops politely refused. things must getting tuff, can you guess how it was? Wm
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What is the big deal? This is called agressive marketing!

Rather than snobbishly sitting on the arse in the smug belief that someone will call because their products are so wonderful, they are showing humility and reaching out to win custom.

Americans do it to an excessive degree but elements of agressive marketing is what some small British firms need to succeed in business.
 
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