zerogain name change -hi fi rage

[cooky1257]

Because it is associated with vision rather than hearing?

Paul

That has to be the most idiotic response I've ever come across-oops did I say come?thats associated with sex isn't it?

Spot; ie to discern, to detect,to notice, to become aware off.
I give up.

 

[Paul Ranson]

I cannot be responsible for the workings of your subconscious... Check the definition of the word in your dictionary.

As for the invocation of unreferenced research into hearing as justification for the existence of unknown phenomena in wires, that's a standard obfuscation. All you need to do is show that you can hear a difference between two cables that measure the same within the known bounds of human hearing.

Paul

 

[Bob McC]

iNaim doesn't need 'special' cable. For speakers It needs bog standard multistrand of a minimum length.

 

[melorib]

We are talking about ICs, me thinks...

 

[Arrowhead]

iNaim doesn't need 'special' cable. For speakers It needs bog standard multistrand of a minimum length.

Naim power amps require a low capacitance, fairly high inductance speaker cable. Hence the parallel, spaced, conductor geometry of NACA5. They also recommend you use at least 3 mtrs a side to keep the inductance up. Oh, and to sell more NACA5

Graham.

 

[Baudrillard]

the fundamental problem lies in treating audio as a "hobby'. It isn't, it is a means to an end. Lose sight of that and you get totally lost. All IMO etc etc

Hi Joel,

Aren't most of us treating it as a hobby, including you and I?

David.

 

[Stereo Mic]

Mike,
There's some fascinating research going on into the brain/ear interface and the power of the audio processing going on on the fly-extremely high resolution fourier anaysis that is attuned to detect difference and change way beyond anything currently available to scientist and engineers.My gut feeling is we've a long way to go before we have anything like a clear picture.
Frank

I used to think that Frank. The truth is there is absolutely no evidence from psychoacoustic research to support any claims what so ever made by cable sales people - although the fact that many people are unsure of the subject does mean they can spout the claim with impunity in the main

If you can give me any evidence of psychoacoustic research demonstrating the audibility of unexplained non scientific phenomenon then please do - otherwise I'll be forced to assume it's simply being used as a crutch by a snake oil salesman and that you choose to believe them rather than the science community.

Any discoveries at all?

 

[Stereo Mic]

They are indeed with well matched components, but sometimes they arent, for instance using Naim gear you need "special" cables, what makes you so sure this was not one of those "special" cases...

Yeah right

And I'm supposed to believe that the owner and demonstrator of the system in question turned up for a show with completely screwed up and incompatible IC's ? Think of the likelyhood of that even being a remote possibility? You are really clutching at straws now...

 

[joel]

Aren't most of us treating it as a hobby?

Yes, I think the vast majority of us do (myself included) and we rather lose our way as a result.

 

[cooky1257]

I cannot be responsible for the workings of your subconscious... Check the definition of the word in your dictionary.

As for the invocation of unreferenced research into hearing as justification for the existence of unknown phenomena in wires, that's a standard obfuscation. All you need to do is show that you can hear a difference between two cables that measure the same within the known bounds of human hearing.

Paul

Have you ever had a conversation? When you do, do you supply reference bibliographies as you go ?
It would appear you are unable to cope with everyday language.
You still haven't told me what wires you use and how you chose them.Are you chicken?(common vernacular for cowardly)
I wasn't using the ear/brain as an explanation, I clearly stated I haven't a clue what's going on here,just that there's plenty more to know in audio GENERALLYand Mike who's an enquiring mind may want to google it and find out more-for intelectual enrichment if nothing else and hey Mike doesn't post links to AES white papers evertime he voices an opinion-nor do you so why should I?.
It could even explain how the effects may be psychological who knows?
This has run its course with you adopt an utterly unnecessary aggressive pedantic and argumentative position that enlightens nothing and no one.

 

[Bob McC]

Naim interconnect is about as exotic as standard mains cable.
Before they produced their own speaker cable Naim recommended bog standard cable off the roll from RS.

 

[melorib]

I dont know, but I do know that most systems at audioshows sound quite bad, I usually leave shows happier with my own system than before, regardless of the "milionaire" equipment visual appeal...

I said it before, but I will repeat, I use budget cables, except silver ICs that the Linn dealer offered to me, in return for letting a reporter do a review of my system, for a magazine, and it does improve highs slightly...

I did use cables to correct system imbalances before, now I do it different ways, wich wont make me say they all sound the same...

 

[melorib]

Naim interconnect is about as exotic as standard mains cable.
Before they produced their own speaker cable Naim recommended bog standard cable off the roll from RS.

What about this...

With these Networks in place these cables can be used with amplifiers from Linn, NAIM and NVA (and all others that eschew the use of load stabilisation networks and thus carry serious health-warnings about which cables to use with them and which not).

 

[cooky1257]

I used to think that Frank. The truth is there is absolutely no evidence from psychoacoustic research to support any claims what so ever made by cable sales people - although the fact that many people are unsure of the subject does mean they can spout the claim with impunity in the main

If you can give me any evidence of psychoacoustic research demonstrating the audibility of unexplained non scientific phenomenon then please do - otherwise I'll be forced to assume it's simply being used as a crutch by a snake oil salesman and that you choose to believe them rather than the science community.

Any discoveries at all?

Thats not what I said and not what I'm doing I've said it till I'm blue in the face.
What is so hard to understand here?
Have I not stated the electricaly benign idea clearly enough,I thought that was precisely your position?
What you seem to be arguing for is we are now at a steady state, all that needs to be known is known which frankly is f*****g stupid-so all cable R&D can now stop.
You assert that cable 'sound' is attributed to LCR I accept that may indeed be the case but these effects on how equipment reacts may require further analysis and a different approach thats all. I' m not justifying the snakeoil lot with their pseudo science-this is where it gets fascistic-you're with us or against us-idiotic.I have an open mind but am smart enough to have a closed wallet -and recommend this approach to everyone.

 

[Baudrillard]

Yes, I think the vast majority of us do (myself included) and we rather lose our way as a result.

Joel, if we weren't 'losing our way' by treating it as a hobby, what would be different in terms of our hifi systems and relationships to them?

Edit: Would we simply be focusing more on music and less on equipment/interactions?

 

[joel]

Joel, if we weren't 'losing our way' by treating it as a hobby, what would be different in terms of our hifi systems and relationships to them?

Audio hardware would simply be the means by which we played back recordings. This isn't how we work, so perhaps audiophoolery is inevitable. It's still belief in magic, though.

 

[Baudrillard]

Well leaving behind the topical 'magic' issue and simply focusing on the 'audiophoolery of treating hifi as 'a hobby', it seems this 'affliction' is something that affects people more as they grow older- personally, I was 32 when struck down by hifi-tus, in the 90s.

What fuelled and supported my new found enthusiasm back then was.......Hifi Choice magazine. In other words, the 'words and opinions' of audio scribes, such as Jason Kennedy and Paul Messenger.

Fast forward eleven years, and my main fuel now is the hifi fora- again words and opinions- and a blimin awful lot of them

I just wonder if this 'hobby' might change somewhat if I didn't access these fora or (to a lesser extent now) the hifi mags?

Would my system be any better or worse for it?

Or would my energies be left to focus more on music or other things?

 

[cooky1257]

Well leaving behind the topical 'magic' issue and simply focusing on the 'audiophoolery of treating hifi as 'a hobby', it seems this 'affliction' is something that affects people more as they grow older- personally, I was 32 when struck down by hifi-tus, in the 90s.

What fuelled and supported my new found enthusiasm back then was.......Hifi Choice magazine. In other words, the 'words and opinions' of audio scribes, such as Jason Kennedy and Paul Messenger.

Fast forward eleven years, and my main fuel now is the hifi fora- again words and opinions- and a blimin awful lot of them

I just wonder if this 'hobby' might change somewhat if I didn't access these fora or (to a lesser extent now) the hifi mags?

Would my system be any better or worse for it?

Or would my energies be left to focus more on music or other things?

Just a few thoughts, Joel

IME hifi mags sow dissatisfaction in your mind-I've avoided them for years now(ok maybe a sly peek in WHSmith) too often the reviews entice you to try something with the latest promise of system transforming kit..
F

 

[Stereo Mic]

What you seem to be arguing for is we are now at a steady state, all that needs to be known is known which frankly is f*****g stupid-so all cable R&D can now stop.

So you are calling the scientific community "fucking stupid" then are you?

That seems excessively confrontational for someone yet to produce anything to back up his claims on this forum.

What do we know that we didn't know 50 years ago with regards to the subject matter at hand?

 

[Stereo Mic]

I dont know, but I do know that most systems at audioshows sound quite bad, I usually leave shows happier with my own system than before, regardless of the "milionaire" equipment visual appeal...

That's called "room acoustics" Antonio. I can help you there. And you won't need to consult the Wanky Wire Web