A challenge / scientific research involving Bub

No, it's not the only way to play music, but it's the best way, ha ha.

 

I for one was genuinely interested in the mechanics of the Mana system. I guess Bub has shed some light on it, but I remain convinced that no one really knows (or possibly cares) the true reasons for it's effect.

As I've said before, having used some Mana in the past, I found the results to be as noticable as suggested, but not to my taste personally. I've pretty much given up on supports, I find a good solidly made cabinet sufficient for my needs these days (with the odd sink scattered around).

So if it is performing as a leaf spring, does it not share some thinking with the Finite Element Pagode?

 

Finite Element Pagode? What on Earth is that? Never heard of it.

 

it's a rack old chap

 

Lead is dense, and has a large amount of mass to dissipate the energy. Also, obviously more massive objects are far harder to drive in to vibration/resonance in the first place. So most of the sound energy is bounced back off the lead surface if the coupling is poor. If the acoustic coupling is very efficient then the lead will absorb a lot of it without vibrating to any significant degree. Given that to transmit sound the final surface has to vibrate in some way so as to create the soundwaves in the air for us to hear, any object that doesn't vibrate, doesn't pass sound to the air around it.


GTM

 

The "specific" part means "per unit mass", so the masses you're comparing are equal, but the heat capacities are different (hence the need for the quantity in the first place). So it's not entirely due to mass then

 

Thanks very much for that GTM, I find it very interesting (being a an unscientific bent!). But in light of the above, and given that Bub has already stated that Mana vibrates, wouldn't these vibrations find the path of least possible resistance to leave the rack and wouldn't that be the air surrounding it (which has the lowest mass)?

 

it depends where.
I was getting really interested in Mana and I asked swiss, germans and american guys: nobody and I really mean nobody new about Mana.

While the swiss and german contacts were average Hifi-fans and some dealers, the american contacts (about 10) were people producing high end components or high-end dealers.

 

Very true.. my mistake.

Heat energy required = Specific heat capacity x mass x temperature rise.


GTM

 

Merlin, all that poly-directional theorizing of yours is a bit unnerving to us adults ;-)

does it not share some thinking with the Finite Element Pagode?

Yes. However, the Pagode sounds nothing like Mana (in let's-do-stand-comparison terms). I've owned both, and while both are good, I think Mana follows one approach through very stringently, whereas the Pagode mixes several approaches (and therefore appeals to a wider audience).

I was getting really interested in Mana and I asked swiss, germans and american guys: nobody and I really mean nobody new about Mana.

I can confirm this with regard to Germany, in any case. Generally, only people interested in expensive British hifi and people working in the industry will have heard of it (and even fewer will have heard it). Always good to keep a bit of geographical perspective!

 

No regrets required Fox your system is excellent. On being asked why he didn't advertise or make his equipment more high profile, Roy Gandy of Rega once said "most people get the hi fi they deserve"

Moral being don't write off small low profile companies, but on the contrary seek them out, they just might offer something that the majors don't.

 

:yikes: :crazy: :banghead: :student: :rds2: :beamup:

 

But did you see the PM report on the Vertex support Fox? He was really amazed at how much of an improvement it offered over his previous supports.

Sorry for being so childish - I was merely trying to understand the reasons for it's colouring the sound so much (because come on, any thing on Mana sounds more like the support than the hardware).

I too have owned both. The Pagode is sorely missed

 

...the reasons for it's colouring the sound so much ...

Please stop trolling about Mana. This is nonsense, and you really should know better.

I've heard more Mana-supported systems than you've had hot dinners, and they all sound different from one another. They do tend to share certain characteristics such as clarity, good separation and a low noise-floor, however.

 

I'm not trolling as you put it James, just seeking clarification. My opinion on what mana does is as valid (but no more so) than yours or Fox's.

The science seems to suggest it plays along with the music. Have you heard many NON Mana-supported systems BTW?

 

If you think that you can hear the vibrations in a Mana stand, you are even weirder than I could possibly have imagined.

Of course I've heard non-Mana'd systems! You seem to assume that we Mana users are all either deaf, stupid or that we lead very sheltered lives.

 

Your words James

I have no problem with people enjoying anything in life, but a Fox said, diversity is what makes the world interesting. Maybe one day I'll get the opportunity to get north of the border. I am at least open minded.

My only assumption is that Mana users like their music presented in a different way to me.

 

I'm about to reveal the biggest improvement in my hi-fi system for a decade.

Paul Messenger

Incidentally, he used these things on top of his Mana.

 

Good for Paul and Mana if he said that. It's one voice like thousand of others: nothing else.

But back to my previous message: with it I wasn't meaning that Mana either is good or bad. Just that I believe it is hardly known out of the UK.


For those who were referring to the Pagode:
which model you are talking about and in which year was it made?