An open post to the forum's Naim representatives

Mick

Originally posted by mick parry

I am visiting Robbo this coming saturday to listen to his system. I am taking the wife and if his system sounds better than mine, I will flog it and buy one like his.
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Mick, sorry for being critical, old chap, but I don't believe for a second you'd do that. You're too entrenched in the whole Naim ethos to change brands now, and you'd lose your special PS discount to boot.

Besides, you've deliberately refused to reply when I've asked you on numerous occasions if you'd audition the EA-2 against the 300 when you're in the market for a new power amp. I think we know the answer to that one...

So we are all open minded.
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Sorry, but I don't think so, old chap.

Regards,
Marco.
 
Re: On Naim...

Hi TC, it's good to see you've brought your eloquent style with you over to ZG.

It is ever-so easy for any of us to criticise Naim on an individual-characteristic basis. If you name an specific aspect of musical sound (e.g. bass depth), I can name a system which can do it better. However, what Naim achieves is equivalent to what a good chef achieves - they can turn ordinary or unspectacular ingredients into something special.
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Totally agree, although I find their new gear a bit too 'nouvelle cuisine' for my liking.

Comparing a top chef to myself - even if you gave me the finest ingredients in the world and the top chef had the leftovers from Tesco on a busy day, I guarantee that the top chef would create the better dish.

And such it is with Naim. It's the combination and balance of all of these ingredients to create a fine musical 'dish'.
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Again, agreed. Have you by any chance been reading my 'top-secret mission statement' ? ;)

In a nutshell: the beauty of Naim is in the balance of the component parts and a synergy between them, not on any one thing. Which is probably why I have only heard three or four decent Naim systems in my life, as poor setup easily throws the balance out and you end up with something that's no better than other hifi.
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If Burntisland gets too cold, come down to 'sunny' Wrexham (LOL, joke) and check out mine, although undoubtedly it is a little less Naim-like these days since the addition of the EA-2.

* I bought a Resolution Audio Opus 21. It's that very rare beastie - a giant-killing cd player that betters players twice or three times its price
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Bloody brilliant CDP! I heard one at Adventures In Hi-fi last year, and in my opinion, it's not far behind a CDS2 (with the old XPS). Unfortunately, it doesn't get enough recognition. I reckon it would trounce the CDX2, though.

Laters,
Marco.
 
I find myself suprisingly in agreement with Marco on this one.

In the past year it seems the main 'slayer' of naim has infact been Merlin, and I find it quite amusing that he should start a thread asking why people feel the need to defend it, when he is always so keen to ridicule it, so its nice to see his new years resolution.

I won't bother going into detail on why I love naim, and I will put my 2 pences worth in when it comes up. I appriciate Wadia's appraisel of naim however, at least he is stating his opinion and being amusing with it. Much of merlins postings concerning naim have been in my recolection very rude, and yes it has got my hackles up.

It all comes down to music at the end of the day, since owning naim stuff I have fallen in love with music, prior to naim I had some Pink Floyd and some other 70s stuff, and anything without instruments was crap etc etc. Nower days I will try anything and spend a lot of money on music, I love it.

I am not blind, I think its people like Merlin who clearly have a preferences for the kit (I am not having a go BTW, we all have hobbies after all) who get angered by people like me who frankly can't be arsed to change their kit every month because it 'excentuates the upper ting on the cymbal' or what ever.

I tend to find with the people I have met who own naim that there is always a substatial amount of music in the room, I am not saying before any one shoots off that those without naim don't.

I would also point out that I have never offered an opinion good or bad on stuff that I havn't heard, can't really say fairer than that.

Finally, I rather think naim would not be so prevelent on these forums if it did not have probably the busiest single manufactuer HIFI forum on the web, if its forum had never existed I am sure some other manufactuer would be attracting so much attention on these HIFI forums.
 
Re: Re: On Naim...

Originally posted by Marco
Totally agree, although I find their new gear a bit too 'nouvelle cuisine' for my liking.
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:D :cool: ;) :cool: :D

Love it Marco - that's the best description of the higher end current Naim gear - not quite Money For Nothing, but a lot of money for what it is. The lower end stuff like the 5 series seems to still be good VFM though :)
 
And once again a thread descends to those love it defending it and apologising and those who have an axe to grind , grinding hard. Almost the complete opposite of what this thread started out to say.

What can one say. Good Grief :rolleyes:
 
Is it that Moon stuff you use? Sorry, but I heard it once (CDP/Pre/Power combo) at one of the hi-fi shows in conjunction with big JM Lab floorstanders, and the overall sound wasn't exactly awe-inspiring. Of course, that could have been down to a number of factors, although I had heard the JM LABs before on numerous occasions with Accuphase/Spectral, and Naim gear, and liked the sound very much...
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Marco,

I was at Bristol last year, went into the the Redline room (demonstrating sim kit) and walked out after about 5 seconds. It was awful. But you of all people should know, as a naimie, that setup is all. Get it (the Sim kit) working at home under optimal conditions and it is really rather good.

As so many Naimies have said to me over the years, never go by what you hear at shows.


I bought a Resolution Audio Opus 21. It's that very rare beastie - a giant-killing cd player that betters players twice or three times its price (including the Eclipse by some margin - not in detail, but in fun, musical integrity and general cohesiveness).
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JTC,

The reason why I like the eclipse so much is that in my system it has in spades the very musical integrity and cohesiveness that you feel it lacks.

Funny old game isn't it?

Cheers, Robbo
 
Have to agree about Naim and set up. I'm only allowed to whisper this so don't tell anyone but Naim kit is very sensitive to its environment. If it's not happy it can sound pants, which is why so many here don't like Naim speakers. The problem is the potential for greatness is there but is rarely fully realised. When it is however then it is worth every penny and every ounce of effort.

Or maybe I'm deluding myself. Whatever I'm happy. Igmorance is bliss. :)
 
Marco

You said

"Mick, sorry for being critical, old chap, but I don't believe for a second you'd do that. You're too entrenched in the whole Naim ethos to change brands now, and you'd lose your special PS discount to boot."

Hifi to me is about making music sound good. To date, Naim have won hands down in that department. If I genuinely find something better, the whole lot goes up on Ebay. Simple as that.

I have no qualms whatsoever about doing it.

Regards

Mick
 
Originally posted by Tom Alves
And once again a thread descends to those love it defending it and apologising and those who have an axe to grind , grinding hard. Almost the complete opposite of what this thread started out to say.

What can one say. Good Grief :rolleyes:
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My thought entirely Tom, well said.

In the past year it seems the main 'slayer' of naim has infact been Merlin,
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Now now Gary:D I admit I am unlikely to become a convert, but please, I have tried to be accomodating here.

Now Mick, will you be bringing the CDS3 up to Bracknell with you? Surely this is the only fair way of judging the Eclipse?
 
Merlin

When you visit someones house you are listening to a complete system. The CDP is just one part of it.

I will be comparing two systems, Robbo's and mine.

Robbo has done research etc and come up with his sytem. I am a mindless sheep, dripping in cash and will just buy Naim.

Listening to these two systems will help me decide which strategy I should adopt in the future.

Regards

Mick
 
Mick, Steven may have a point. What if you go to Robbo's, prefer his stuff, buy it, flog all the Naim and then go somewhere else which you prefer to Robbo's system? This is hypothetical, perhaps Robbo has the best system on the planet but if he does would the same system sound as good at your place?

My system is starting to sound quite good after 2 years of pissing about with setup, support, acoustic foam and mains yet some of the components, the speakers especially, can sound ghastly without all that effort.

To be honest, I think I'd advise anyone to try and get the very best they can out of what they've got, you know, silly little things like getting the speakers in phase, before making any further changes, particularly of brand. Nonetheless, we all make mistakes, like B&Ws, soonest rid the better, for me, yet others love'em.

Alex
 
Originally posted by julian2002
also not so off topic as the 'little' nap 500 was being put down due to it's aparent lack of 'cubes' probably without those doing the putting having experienced it.
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Sure I've heard the NAP500 into NBL's.

I've also heard the Bryston 4BST into a range of speakers.

And if I had a mountain of money, I'd still by the Bryston, it's a better amp and you can buy it new (discounted) for a tenth of the price..
 
Having not heard Bryston I am unable to comment.

Having heard a nap500 into NBLS, I fail to see what it is you need from music to enjoy it, if I wanted a PA in the house I would get a JBL PA Rig.
 
This is hypothetical, perhaps Robbo has the best system on the planet but if he does would the same system sound as good at your place?
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Why just call it hypothetical? ;)

Alex is correct, My little ProAcs in Micks large front room would be hopelessly lost and the amp is underpowered for driving speakers in his large room. The stuff works a treat in my room though - to my ears. It simply isnt possible to transplant systems into different rooms and get the same sound in my experience. The room is an intrinsic part of any system.
 
Re: Merlin

Originally posted by mick parry
Listening to these two systems will help me decide which strategy I should adopt in the future.

Regards

Mick
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Without wishing to sound facetious, how?

What exactly do you hope to gain?

If it's justification for the CDS3, then I would suggest without a direct comparison of both sources in both setups, then the excerise is meaningless (although Robbo is always a gratious host and a pleasure to visit)
 

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