Another cable spin-off: termination

How much difference does it make compared with my custom cables that I had made for £50? Thats the bottom line ;). If they measure differently please quantify in what way and how much this can be expected to alter the interaction between the connected units in terms of lcr and any other parameters you might consider important.
 
Err.... if you want to know what 3d's cables sound like why not buy a set ? Why should he tell you? If did you could then do all the LCR testing to your hearts content.

More constructively, you could of course provide some positve or helpful thread associated comments, rather than try to initiate an arguement over an unrelated matter.
 
Hi,

zanash said:
Err.... if you want to know what 3d's cables sound like why not buy a set ?
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I'd rather much BBZ went, found a supplier for the raw cable, tried to buy a sensible quantity suited to his system, handled the hassle with shipping and customs, then separated, teased out, stripped and combined the 320 super thin wires per stereo pair of speaker cables and performed his own testing, objective and subjective.

It might give him a little more appreciation for other peoples work, even if he still comes out believing that it is all bunk. :D

Ciao T
 
Standard IDE Cable uses tinplated stranded conductors and grey pvc insulation.

So our cable with solid core silverplated copper and clear FEP insulation does not sound like 80 Core IDE Cable, as it is electrically different from that stuff.
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WIRRIB68FEP.large%5B1%5D.GIF

Teflon / PTFE / FEP Extruded High Performance Bulk 80-Conductor 0.025 pitch Ribbon Cable

Insulation: FEP Teflon
Conductor: 80 wire, silver braided
Color: Natural

Cost: about £20 to £25 per/m

http://www.mycableshop.com/sku/WIRRIB80FEP.htm?x=28&y=18

Which (forgive me for sounding cynical) sounds very much like "80 conductor Teflon insulated solidcore silverplated copper ribbon cable".
 
Hi,

mosfet said:
Cost: about £20 to £25 per/m
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Or in other words £ 40 - 50 + VAT per stereo meter, unterminated. Around 4 Hours to terminate a stereo pair (it is really hard to do it any faster without tearing through the occasional strand).

So, go and make your own....

No-one is stopping you.

BTW, the cable I use is not the specific brand you get at the cableshop, though I have no particular reason to believe it is worse. Mine comes from the same factory another very high profile cable maker uses for their own stuff.

Ciao T
 
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I wouldn't do it, lifes too short! Would be interested to hear it though - whats the purity of the silver, anyone know?
 
Hi,

rsand said:
I wouldn't do it, lifes too short! Would be interested to hear it though - whats the purity of the silver, anyone know?
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The actual conductor is copper, same purity as anyone uses (try having "six nines" or such metal assayed, have fun).

There is silverplating on the surface, has to be as the extruded FEP at the temperature it must be extruded would literally burn the copper surface otherwise.

The layer is quite thin, no idea on purity, most probably usual industrial purity, that is the same as for the copper.

Ciao T
 
Z - I always listen to things before I buy them, rather than buying and then listening. 3d has said that his cables measure differently - it seems reasonable to ask in what way. Nobodies trying to initiate an argument - at least not me. I didnt even initiate this part of the discussion. I just hopped on board the trian as it pulled out of the station ;)

3d - well I dont want to go so far hopefully - I had some custom cables made, good quality cable and connectors. Then compared with top of the range nordost and could hear no difference. Thats good enough for me. I prefer to spend my time worrying about other things. If I hear your cable and it sounds better I will be happy to accept your claims.

Lets all keep it civil guys.
 
Or in other words £ 40 - 50 + VAT per stereo meter, unterminated.
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A rough costing

4m* / 80 conductor FEP over silver/copper IDE cable at $14/foot: $182
International shipping: $9.75
UKP total £110

8 plugs and heatshrink approx £30
Material costs for 2m pair approx £165 including VAT

*based on 40 parallel conductors per side

So, go and make your own....
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I think it would be the sensible thing to do if I were (and I might). Hastening to add I'm sure the same or similar mark-ups apply to awful lot of hi-fi wires.
 
Hi,

mosfet said:
A rough costing
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Very rough and showing no familiarity with buying fromoverseas.

Cable cost itself = 14' (4m)

$ 196

Shipping Cost (10 - 20 days delivery, no insurance etc)

appx. $ 20

Total $ 216

Exchange Rate currently $ 1.74 per £, so £ 124 plus probably around £5 in credic card charges or as much as £ 20 when paying via bank transfer, never mind that somehow Bank/Card Compnies exchange rates are never as good as the official market rate..

So, lets be generous and say £ 140 actual cost with charges.

There will be around 10% (or more?) import duties on the £ 124, so we are at £ 154, on top of that VAT and the hassle of clearing the parcel with customs, in total nearly £ 175 and probably 2 - 3 weeks waiting and the time to deal with HM Customs & Excise. You could choose a carrier that does the Duties and Taxes for you, but that costs a lot more.

So, realistically the materials for the 2m Pair of cables is well in the > £ 200 region. Add to that £ 100+ for my time to make them and some margin for the distribution/dealership and you can see that the price is not THAT unreasonable at all.

You will find most commercial cables (and indeed other HiFi Items not just cables) have much larger markups, as has washing powder and any brandname softdrink.

Ciao T
 
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You seem to think that your silly precious cables work "best" with your silly precious hi-fi choices. Is that correct? Why should we believe this nonsense? Just give one reason.
 
Very rough and showing no familiarity with buying fromoverseas.
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I've plenty of working experience of international buying and I've yet to see more than 7% duty charge applied to small engineering or electrical parts ââ'¬â€œ as I said a rough costing. The shipping costs are those quoted by the supplier previously linked to.

I could do a full costing and doubt it would come to more than £180.

Either way I don't give a monkeys what the equivalent retail cost would be from you 3D because I'm hardly likely to buy if I can make the same (to all intents and purposes) myself.
 
penance said:
That stuff is a beatch to terminate.
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Madison sell a stripper for doing Nordost Solar Wind and the other fancy names. Yes, it is a bitch and the tool could be improved a lot, but it helps and considerably cuts down the time. It is still difficult to avoid breaking the odd strand and can get very annoying.
 
Hi,

mosfet said:
The shipping costs are those quoted by the supplier previously linked to.
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Nope, it is the BASE rate, plus weight (including packing), which is notable. Anyway, you choose the most optimistic view, I choose the "prudent" view for a business. Even only 7% Duties don't change the bottom line much.

So, bottom line the Materials are £ 180 to £ 210 (depending on estimates, specific materials, bank/credit card charges etc.) for a 2m Set yes?

Ciao T
 
So, bottom line the Materials are £ 180 to £ 210 (depending on estimates, specific materials, bank/credit card charges etc.) for a 2m Set yes?
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If you wish, yes. A saving in the region of £380 which as I previously said is by no means remarkable and equally applicable to other cable vendors. £380 buys a lot of beer and so this would be my prudent choice.
 
99% of systems (including my own) have flaws or areas of improvement where spending the same money or time fixing those would yield benefits many times larger than messing around with cables. I do agree that using good conenctors makes a small difference. I use the neutrik earth breaking connectors for interconnects. For loudspeakers any decent quality gold plated plug will do. It seems fantastical almost that people spend so much time, money and effort on this issue when its really very straight forward. I guess its "easier" to think buying an expensive cable will improve your system dramatically when the alternatives are harder work and might actually involve having to chuck away a few items that the hifi mags recommend ;).
 
Hi,

mosfet said:
If you wish, yes. A saving in the region of £380 which as I previously said is by no means remarkable and equally applicable to other cable vendors. £380 buys a lot of beer and so this would be my prudent choice.
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You do not really save that much if you add your time at what you could be earning working saturday/sunday.

Past that, I do recommend to everyone to make their own cables, but enough people lack skills/time etc. and prefer to pay someone else....

Ciao T
 


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