Anyone heard the GBP7000 NAIM CD Player?

Lawrie,

Its a lovely idea but to my mind pointless because of what I said: I doubt I'd spot much difference between my Rotel and my Densen but after a while I'd just get bored with the former. Actually, I've found amps to be much the same. The Densen DM10 does nothing wrong exactly and is very good for a 1300 quid integrated. A/B against the Dynavectors I may not spot much difference but over the long haul the DVs are just much more musically engaging and unboring - very difficult to put my finger on why. DVs don't blow your socks off like some other brands on first audition but they are very satisfying long term.
 
I see where your going here Lawrie ;) ,
I can asure you guys an Audio areo captiol is very different in sonic signiture than a CDS3 or Sim elipse, it's closer to a mid range anaolgue sound than almost any other player I've heard, The bow zz ref, is at the other end of the scale to the CDS3, the Wadia 861 does many things right, but falls on a few, as do all of the top players.
Holding a blind test, humm yes pretty straight ward, all we would need was an Ayre 7/ AA capitol and also a an Accuphase dp 75 of all the ones listed, they all do sound different by a fair margin, whether better, is down to the individual themselves, an AA Capitol owners didn't buy it to play rammstein or the pistols, some are just very good at mid range textures and neueces, other are blood & guts, but differernt they are.
Still systems & rooms they are placed in play a major part in the overall final sound as well
 
Originally posted by wadia-miester
Holding a blind test,
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You need a double blind test, which you can do with a remote controlled pre-amp and a computer (generating the ABX sequence).. If you do a blind test, where the tester knows the result, then it is biased like those old Linn dealer foot tapping shenanigans.

You also need to level match the players to 0.1dB with a multimeter.

Still systems & rooms they are placed in play a major part in the overall final sound as well
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Use phones (eg Etymotic ER4S are very good for this ...).

Compared a 390S and a CDS2 using this kind of computer controlled test a couple of weeks ago :)
 
aaarrrggghhhh!!!!

we are not back to discussing blind testing again:chop:


Regarding the original topic of this thread, I really dont think there is such a thing as the 'best' CD player. The only thing to do is to have a listen to players like the CDS3, Wadia 861, Audio Research CD3, Sim Eclipse and see which presentation you prefer. At this level, it really is down to personal preference.
 
Originally posted by Robbo
aaarrrggghhhh!!!!
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Is that fear I hear?

we are not back to discussing blind testing again
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Why discuss it, when you can try it? Just give it a go. I think you'd find the results interesting.

Regarding the original topic of this thread, I really dont think there is such a thing as the 'best' CD player. The only thing to do is to have a listen to players like the CDS3, Wadia 861, Audio Research CD3, Sim Eclipse and see which presentation you prefer. At this level, it really is down to personal preference.
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Maybe that "level" extends all the way down to the M-audio Superdac that WM and Issac have been fiddling with.

The bake-off should try an 861 vs. a Superdac, in as close to a double blind test as you can. (eg level matching, no "cheating" by communicating from the tester to the subjects.. headphones would be good..)
 
Originally posted by dat19
The bake-off should try an 861 vs. a Superdac, in as close to a double blind test as you can. (eg level matching, no "cheating" by communicating from the tester to the subjects.. headphones would be good..)
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Robbo - just to keep dat19 happy don't forget to take your computer controlled preamp and multimeter for 0.1dB level matching with you to the bake off. If I was going of course I'd bring mine or maybe Julian has one knocking about at home? :rolleyes:

Michael.
 
Hey guys,

I have a radical suggestion, why don't we listen to some music at the bake off! I know that's a bit of a controversial suggestion, but it could be worth a try!
 
Great idea, but wait .......up, it'll have to be double blind approved, everyone 'feeling' the cd jewel cases, to 'guess the artists' before playing can comence :D
Dat, great idea you come and bring the kit, we'll wait in another room you do the test, and we'll guess, but only after 15 pints so we can't tell the difference, then it'll be fair.
 
unfortunately i have neither a multi-meter or a db meter, also computer controlled preamps, or enough curtains to block off sight of someone buggering about behind the rack are also sadly unavailable. i guess we'll just have to have a listen to some kit for a while and then listen to some music until everyone goes home - oh the humanity.
cheers


julian
 
Originally posted by garyi
Henry, if you visit the naim factory...
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If I ever got an invite, I'd surely take it up. :)

Originally posted by SCIDB
Here's a piece on the naim speakers.
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Interesting article... When was it written?

I was just wondering which Quads (57/63/988/989) were in mind as the reference in the minds of both the designer and authors of that article. There certainly seems to be no dennying that they got the SPL and bass reach issues well and truly sorted. The only thing that I would question would be that of ultimate coherence and integration of the different panels especially with the use of a ribbon HF unit - this is one area where I've not heard Quad 989's beaten - it really does sound like just *one* speaker.
 
Bake off hearing tests

julian2002, wadia-miester, Robbo, michaelab,

Procrastination and fear is all I'm hearing from you guys :)

If you think these players (CDS3, Wadia 861, Audio Research CD3, Sim Eclipse) sound different, then try telling them apart when you can't see which one is playing (or the preamp input selector)..

Jesus turn into a drinking game if that's what it is going to take!
 
Dat,

I dont want to piss on your fire, but none of the above mentioned players will actually be at Julians get together. I am certainly not carting the eclipse around as I dont want it damaged.

Honestly mate, we really all would much prefer listening to music, its far more fun than blind testing. You should try it sometime;)
 
Very interesting discussion,

I can see the point of blind testing to make a buying decision, presumably if you are going to spend 7K on a CD player you are very serious about music, will have at least 1,000 CDs or more, and so will be spending most of the time after buying listening to music.

7K represents around 700 CDs which is serious, before spending that amount I would like the security of knowing that I really could tell the difference between say a 1K and a 7k player. After all the difference in price is around 600CDs. I mean I could be kidding myself, a victim of marketing pressure or something. A blind test would be a useful tool for eliminating these possibilities.
 
Originally posted by The Devil
£7k for any CDP is ridiculous, especially if you consider the limitations of the format in the first place.
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Yes, I understand what you mean especially considering the systems you are used to hear.
 
Originally posted by Paul Duerden
Very interesting discussion,

I can see the point of blind testing to make a buying decision, presumably if you are going to spend 7K on a CD player you are very serious about music, will have at least 1,000 CDs or more, and so will be spending most of the time after buying listening to music.

7K represents around 700 CDs which is serious, before spending that amount I would like the security of knowing that I really could tell the difference between say a 1K and a 7k player. After all the difference in price is around 600CDs. I mean I could be kidding myself, a victim of marketing pressure or something. A blind test would be a useful tool for eliminating these possibilities.
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A blind test yes but at home with your own system which you are used to listen to. I a blind test is done outside, you have to get first used to all the details that system can give you. This can last hours: Repeat hearing the same test track you have brought along and without stress. And best alone.
Is a bakeoff an ideal place?? :rolleyes:
 
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Personally, I dont think blind testing is much use at all. I think you need to live with equipment at home over a period of at least a week to get a full appreciation of what it is capable of doing. A quick AB switching from one to the other will not be enough to allow you to appreciate how a player deals with a wide range of music and whether you want to keep listening or head for the off button.

I have heard players where you get an instant wow factor, but on longer term listening they become fatiguing and irritating.

Often it is only when a piece of equipment is taken out of a system and you subsequently find the involvement factor goes missing that you appreciate how good it is.
 
<< Often it is only when a piece of equipment is taken out of a system and you subsequently find the involvement factor goes missing that you appreciate how good it is. >> Exactly. Thanks for explaining what I was trying to say.
 
Treacherous ground Alex,

We all know that a system can vary greatly day to day, and even at diferent times on the same day. A loss of involvement factor could be observed, attributed to a change of equipment, the equipment changed back and later in the day the system is sounding hunky dory again. You would then think that this was because you had say changed a CD player. In fact it could be due to better mains, a lessening of atmospheric RF, or even just a change of mood. I think the mood you are in is highly important and not much discussed .
 
Originally posted by Robbo
Personally, I dont think blind testing is much use at all. I think you need to live with equipment at home over a period of at least a week to get a full appreciation of what it is capable of doing. A quick AB switching from one to the other will not be enough to allow you to appreciate how a player deals with a wide range of music and whether you want to keep listening or head for the off button.
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This statement in the context a short session like a bake off is understandable. However coming from a person like you is surprising as it seems to imply you never believe blind testing are more reliable then subjective listening session.

Perhaps you do not wish to be as 'scientific' in your hobby but some would. For me it is like buying a pair of walking boots and weatherproof jacket. I would like to know that my gears actually serve a purpose when hill walking in the middle of winter and not just designer labels with impressive price tag that other poser buy to makes them feel trendy.
 

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