Anyone still using dealers?

[Kit]

I'm not worried about the mid point between japcrap and plush esoterica drying up.

The internet allows cottage industies and one man outfits like Scott Nixon to survive by selling directly to consumers, meeting the demand for stuff that sounds decent but doesn't cost the earth.

The modding and kit building scene seems in rude health too. Perhaps the future is custom made or tuned kit made in tiny quantities? Mass customization instead of the old one size fits all brands.

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by Kit
The modding and kit building scene seems in rude health too. Perhaps the future is custom made or tuned kit made in tiny quantities, repalcing old one size fits all brands?

Actually Kit, those of us old enough, remember when the hifi industry was almost entirely Kit based and even the likes of Audio T used to sell over the counter kits for you to put together at home.

Direct sales work, for me it's a great way to buy. The problem is that manufacturers are scared to go down that route for fear of upsetting the dealer community and having no alternative route to market should the internet prove less successful.

I would personally love to see some of the UK speaker brands assembling a seperate line in China and offering them for sale to the public via the internet. Given the distance selling laws in this country, buying mail order effectively gives you a two week home demo facility anyway. No high street dealers I know of are sao generous.

Maybe some 7th Weil speakers, made in India, and using locally sourced Bangror drivers could get themselves into homes across the world without the need for UK based dealers who sadly still consider it their god given right to exclusively sell brands within their "manor"

 

[blakeaudio]

fear of upsetting the dealer community and having no alternative route to market should the internet prove less successful.

best chuckle i've had in a while! do you have any idea of the rate of growth of internet retail turnover?? they didn't think the telephone or the light bulb would last either....

 

[Hex Spurt]

Originally posted by blakeaudio
my point was that he suggested items that he did not have, but could source...

and incidentally i have explained elsewhere how i came to decide upon my equipment, but i will say it again, only the cd player was demoed from a dealer and this was a straight shoot out. i did buy the wadia from the dealer whence it came.

Blimey, keep your shirt on I didn't realise I had to go through all your other posts to get your systems life story

I just looked up your kit list: Wadia, Eastern Electric, VAC & Thiel. It's not the sort of stuff you'd find in an average high-end dealer, is it. So I'm not surprised you had to go through the back door to get some of this stuff.

Now if you'd originally said you could only get your kit via mail-order because of limited UK distribution then that would of made a bit more sense than "i didn't buy any of my kit in a "shop", instead i got it all off the internet and saved a packet in the process" which was perhaps a little misleading in the context of this thread

And as regards sourcing kit that isn't normally stocked, you might be surprised to know that regular specialist high-street dealers (not your Sevenoaks/Audio-T etc multiples) can sometimes do that too.

They're often approached by distributors and manufacturers promoting new equipment. Just because a product isn't on the shelf doesn't mean a dealer hasn't heard it and got a manufacturers price list. You don't have to be a consultant to keep an open mind to what else might be available.

Good luck with your mains conditioning.

 

[blakeaudio]

shirt firmly on... office disapproves of otherwise.

the thing is, still managed to get everything well below list thanks to avoiding shops and using the internet.

 

[sideshowbob]

Some dealers are good. I was on the hunt for a particular amp to try out over the bank holiday weekend with my new (well, s/h) speakers and O'Brien's in Wimbledon got one in from the manufacturer for me today at a few hours' notice, despite me not being one of their regulars. This strikes me as extremely good service. Let's hope I like it enough to buy it, otherwise I'll feel like a right b*stard.

-- Ian

 

[Hex Spurt]

blakeaudio,
Still not the whole story though, is it.

These marginal brands (exotic as they are) still remain on the very edges of the Hi-Fi landscape, so I wouldn't expect the normal retail rules to apply in the same way as more mainstream brands like Linn, Naim or Meridian. I think you'd have had a tougher time negotiating reduced prices on those products. If you're honest with yourself I think you'd probably agree?

Regards

Hex

 

[PBirkett]

Originally posted by sanj
So how many folks are guilty of sourcing components via forums/reviews/net etc, tracking it down at a dealer, having a good 'ol listen, and then buying it cheaper new or s/h via the net/classifieds?
Of course it's not always possible to do this all the time.

A bit of a late reply here, but one I feel I should make anyway. I consider myself to have two seperate systems. One is a headphone rig, the other a speaker rig.

Now, the speaker rig was easy. I was able to go to Lintone, and audition various amps and speakers, and find out which ones I liked. I made my choice, and 2 years later, am still happy with the choices I made.

The headphone rig was anything but easy. Ever tried to audition anything outside of Sennheiser or Grado, MF, Creek, Project or whatever other usual suspects there are? If you have ever tried to audition headphones, you will realise how hard it is. If you ever look at headfi, or even just various internet retail sites, you'll realise how little of what is out there is even available to audition.

It has took me MANY, MANY attempts to find a headphone system I even remotely get on well with (the current rig, despite not being perfect, is as close as dammit as I'm prepared to go).

My point is, I managed to listen to an amp and speakers, and be happy with my choice. It took me far too much trial and error to find a headfi rig I liked. That for me, is why its very bad news if dealers go out of action.

I will happily pay a dealer a little bit more for their products because they offer a service, and in the long run, that service saves you money.

 

[blakeaudio]

but then, why bother with garden varieties????
..... and actually, i certainly wouldn't call thiel, wadia or vac, marginal brands! thiel is one of the biggest selling "high end" speaker manufacturers in the US, VAC is perhaps lowerer volume, but certainly highly reagrded and wadia, i don't think i need to say much on them.

 

[Hex Spurt]

Originally posted by blakeaudio
but then, why bother with garden varieties????

If you're prepared to root around the bramble patch and suffer the thorns and nettles then you may just find a juicy berry that's to your taste.

Most others think it's a lot less bover with a hover

 

[blakeaudio]

isn't that part of the fun of this "hobby"????

 

[Saab]

Would any of you buy stuff in the £500 to say £2500 bracket, unheard off the internet, based purely on a magazine or forum members recommendation

who asked that?

well I did,I had some money burnig a hole,I wanted to upgrade my kit so i looked at what was for sale in the furms and asked advice.I was offered some £1750 speakers for a bargain and they came recommended,so i researched on the web and found out they were universally admired................i then read the "best ever amp" thread and the A21 was again,universally adored,and as luck would have it,one went unsold on Ebay so i emailed the guy and offered him the same as I paid for the speakers,£450.I did likewise with a cdp and some Isolda

so everything bought using the web,advice and all................and of course it could have been an almighty mess,but instead I got a 4k system for £1400,and luckily the system suits my musical tastes,perfectly so (the advice i was given suggested this when i stipulated what my tastes and listening volumes are,as did the reviews)

am I mad,mental,insane? insert your own adjective,but whatever,i am very happy with what i ended up with,and I didnt go near a dealer.

 

[Hex Spurt]

Originally posted by blakeaudio
but then, why bother with garden varieties????
..... and actually, i certainly wouldn't call thiel, wadia or vac, marginal brands! thiel is one of the biggest selling "high end" speaker manufacturers in the US, VAC is perhaps lowerer volume, but certainly highly reagrded and wadia, i don't think i need to say much on them.

With the *exception of Wadia*, which is well known here, the other brands are really US home territories products. There isn't any significant UK distribution. I'm sure that the mirror situation is true in the US. There are brands we would consider high-end bread & butter that wouldn't see much action in the US.

If you are trying to propose that you beat the system simply because you chose a few ringers, then basic argument is flawed. I dare say you could have made equally impressive savings by chosing to build valve kits and then measuring the performance and value for money against a fully assembled product from a high-end manufacturer.

I admire your courage for choosing these less well known* brands. Many others would see that as a risky strategy, particularly when it comes to upgrading and selling them on in what can be a very conservative second-hand market. You could of course argue that you will never need to change them, if so then congratulations, but I like to keep my options open.

Regards

Hex

 

[Dev]

Originally posted by merlin
I'd tempt him back to the shop with a phone call to tell him of something amazing he must hear (all good retailers take numbers)

Then I'd have him followed on his way home. Simple.

My favourite would be to put posters up around his neighbourhood exposing him as a paedophile and dawbing the front of his newly discovered residence with the word "Nonce"

Good job I'm not in retail anymore really.

That explains your avatar how did the poor kitten short change you?

But seriously, that's a pretty scary attitude , I hope you were joking. If not, I agree with you, good job you're not in retail any more. I have a lot of sympathy for helpful and specialist dealers but hey the punishment should fit the crime. As a parent, I could never take the subject of paedophilia lightly.

 

[7_V]

Originally posted by Saab
so everything bought using the web,advice and all................and of course it could have been an almighty mess,but instead I got a 4k system for £1400,and luckily the system suits my musical tastes,perfectly so (the advice i was given suggested this when i stipulated what my tastes and listening volumes are,as did the reviews)

Excellent and, in fairness, provided you exercise a little caution when purchasing, you're not risking a lot. You can always recoup your costs by selling stuff on if you don't like it.

 

[merlin]

Dev,

Me? Joke? On Zerogain?

Exaggerate maybe! And as a non parent I am at liberty to never take anything too seriously

 

[blakeaudio]

I admire your courage for choosing these less well known* brands. Many others would see that as a risky strategy, particularly when it comes to upgrading and selling them on in what can be a very conservative second-hand market. You could of course argue that you will never need to change them, if so then congratulations, but I like to keep my options open.

again i refer the gentleman to the answer i gave some threads ago...

i was very familiar with the amp that the vac was based on. i've wanted one for 10 years, and i doubt i will ever get rid of it. i am in fact totally smitten with it. the speakers were recommended by the designer of the amp, and the preamp, at the price i paid for it i was willing to take a gamble on it. (i did carry out exhaustive research on all the products before i short listed them. and then spoke to the designers of both the eastern electric and the vac and the customer services department of thiel.

i was based on my knowledge of the original amp, the designer's advice / recommendations, very comfortable with taking the chance. additionally running the wadia direct has further supported my view that the minimax is a fine pre and punches well over it's weight.

it just requires being more involved and to be quite frank, that has made it far more an enjoyable experience all around.


incidentally, i have also built kits.

 

[Saab]

Originally posted by 7_V
Excellent and, in fairness, provided you exercise a little caution when purchasing, you're not risking a lot. You can always recoup your costs by selling stuff on if you don't like it.

yep,thats what I thought,and i think the odds are heavily stacked in favour of a 4k system sounding better than a £1400 brand new one from a dealer

incidently,i did the same with my previous kit,all bought the same way,and as it turned out,i didnt like the B&W CDM1SEs,and they sold in a day..................using the interent again

 

[blakeaudio]

i think the odds are heavily stacked in favour of a 4k system sounding better than a £1400 brand new one from a dealer.

absolutely!!

incidently,i did the same with my previous kit,all bought the same way,and as it turned out,i didnt like the B&W CDM1SEs,and they sold in a day..................using the interent again

the internet is the future... evolve or die.

 

[sanj]

Originally posted by julian2002
if you buy mail order you have 7 days to return the goods FOR WHATEVER REASON by law.

True.
Has anyone actually tried sending something back under this law? Fortunately, the few bits of hifi bought over the net, I've liked, so never had to resort to it.

Although I have noticed that quite a few websites stipulate that they don't "home demo" (fair enough), and that goods returned will have a restocking fee, sometimes up to 20-25%. Is this legal?
And how many websites actually state so clearly that goods can be returned within 7 days, no questioned asked