Anyone still using dealers?

[merlin]

greg,

John Roberts is undoubtedly the best high end dealer in the country, a man who is prepared to stock the kit and offer a wide enough selection to make a valid judgement.

I would buy from him no question, IMO the other high end dealerships are very much in the 2nd division these days.

 

[wadia-miester]

Originally posted by Robbo
There are a number of dealers who seem to have that kind of supremely arrogant attitude around my way (the worst offendors are those who sell megabucks US kit). I know for a fact that they are not getting a penny of my money, even if it means I have to go out of my way to get a similar item.

And as has been said, word of mouth is very powerful. I suspect many of my acquaintences wont be setting foot in those dealers either.

Robbo observation is classic, but oh so true one, I've been to a the odd one of 2 places, most are friendly and welcoming, and don't judge a book by its cover, others particularly those who Robbo's describing above, wouldn't give you the steam of their piss, let alone the time of day
There is a thread (sticky) some where about good and bad dealers, anyone up for a spot of searching here?
Interesting little story here not hifi, when I had the Car business, we had a gentleman come and enquire about an Lancia Intergrale Evo 2 for his Daughter, his dress and demeanor was one of a chap at the pub, he looked over the car, said 'Yep I'll take it' only if you can prep it for this afternoon, We can do that sir I said, how do you wish to pay? (I said smiling ) credit card he said, humm..... I thought, You'll have to accept the 3% fee sir, thats not a problem he replied, card was refered I rang up the said, no problem Gentleman has unlimited credit It was a present for the Daughter before he went over seas on Business.

 

[analoguekid]

Originally posted by merlin
[B

As for Audio Salon, well a lot of dealers in the South East would complain that they are hamstrung by having to sell at the same price whilst incurring vastly higher overheads than those suffered by a Glasgow based dealership. If you are a hifi dealer in Scotland, shouldn't you be passing some of those savings to the consumer? [/B]

Merlin that's exactly what Jack does, i have NEVER paid full retail for anything I have purchased from the Salon, allways get 20% off cable and stuff, and trade ins and s/h prices very good.

My system was purchased as 6 moth old exdem, £20k new £10300 exdem, I may have inadvertantly shorted out output on poweramp and blew one channel, Jack sent amp back to Bow in Denmark, amp was away for nearly 5 weeks, and seems to have disappeared, at the same time as he sent mine back he ordered another setup, ie wizard warlock and walrus, to have on dem, new stuff turned up before my repaired amp, Jack phoned me and offered me Brand new poweamp as a replacement, pretty fair i thought, I even offered to swap them back when my repaired one turned up but Jack said this was unnescesary unless I wished the old one back, it would make little difference to him, what was important to Jack was that I was happy, which I am, (now to try same trick with cdp and pre amp to see if I am as lucky again.

He is an honest enthusiast who runs his business to enable him to indulge in his hobby, and asks that you treat him with the same respect he offers you.

Paul

 

[badchamp]

Originally posted by 7_V
You can always recoup your costs by selling stuff on if you don't like it.

Which was one reason why I let the Sparks go for such a steal !!

I'd have haggled a bit more but I realise that speakers are difficult. I figurred that at the price, if they didn't work, saab would have been able to move them on with little, if no downside.

 

[Lt Cdr Data]

I have never understood this kind of snobbery...artificially keeping prices higher.

I tend to avoid that, and I am 100% certain that if they sold the bits with only a small amount of profit, cheap, they would sell shed loads and make more than being greedy and only having a trickle of sales. Can't get my head around that one.

 

[ANOpax]

John Roberts is undoubtedly the best high end dealer in the country, a man who is prepared to stock the kit and offer a wide enough selection to make a valid judgement.

IMO the other high end dealerships are very much in the 2nd division these days.

To this list of one, I would add John Jeffries at SoM. Some may not like his 'trial' policy, but when it comes to pricing, he's always happy to do a deal with a handshake and a smile. Add extensive demming facilities and a huge range of equipment to that and you have another 1st division dealer.

reg

 

[PumaMan]

Originally posted by Lt Cdr Data
I have never understood this kind of snobbery...artificially keeping prices higher.

I tend to avoid that, and I am 100% certain that if they sold the bits with only a small amount of profit, cheap, they would sell shed loads and make more than being greedy and only having a trickle of sales. Can't get my head around that one.

Yes I always thought it was better to sell 20 at £200 than 1 at £500! (Record companies take note)

The UK seems to have a system whereby if a product doesnt sell, then you put the price up. Shame that there are enough of us mug enough to then pay it.

 

[PumaMan]

Wasnt there a dealer who used to have really fancy pretencious adds in the hifi mags with his smug face all over them in a black turtle neck sweater?

Son et Lumiere I think they were called. Tw*ts, I thought!

 

[Hex Spurt]

Originally posted by Lt Cdr Data
I have never understood this kind of snobbery...artificially keeping prices higher.

I tend to avoid that, and I am 100% certain that if they sold the bits with only a small amount of profit, cheap, they would sell shed loads and make more than being greedy and only having a trickle of sales. Can't get my head around that one.

This is a classic misconception. It assumes that there is unlimited demand and that price is the only governing factor. Both these assumptions are wrong. If petrol were 40p per litre would you go fill your car twice as much and drive twices as far on purpose just because it got cheaper? Probably not. You'd be happy it cost less, and so not as concerned about the cost of motoring, but beyond that it wouldn't make a huge difference to you. Petrol is a commodity, Hi-Fi is a luxury good, but the principle remains.

Hex

 

[analoguekid]

We all want dealers to give us discounts, but imagine on turning up for work tommorow your boss said "C'mon I've been your boss for some years now, what about showing alittle loyalty, how about you work for 20% less from now on"

This is the same to dealer as you asking for discount.

If you think products are overpriced then lobby manufacturer or distributor, or don't buy their products, but give the dealer a break.

 

[Hex Spurt]

Originally posted by analoguekid
We all want dealers to give us discounts, but imagine on turning up for work tommorow your boss said "C'mon I've been your boss for some years now, what about showing alittle loyalty, how about you work for 20% less from now on"

This is the same to dealer as you asking for discount.

If you think products are overpriced then lobby manufacturer or distributor, or don't buy their products, but give the dealer a break.

I can see the reason behind this, but I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment as applied to a dealer. I think it would be very appropriate for a manufacturer though.

This might sound slightly contradictory, but IMO you should be able to discuss price with a dealer. However, if some items in a sale are non-negotiable then don't get your knickers in a knot. As long as the dealer can justify the price and you've done your homework and are certain that it can't be bought for significantly less elsewhere then settle on the deal. Of course, this is quite simple with new goods of the same brand, but much harder when you throw in s/h and ex-dem and competing brands in the mix but that's life, isn't it.

Hex

 

[greg]

Originally posted by analoguekid
but imagine on turning up for work tommorow your boss said "C'mon I've been your boss for some years now, what about showing alittle loyalty, how about you work for 20% less from now on"

I dont buy this angle, retail is fundamentally based around a margin which is negotiable and the anticipation of negotiation is built into most if not all retail margins. It would be rude to pay RRP

 

[technobear]

Most dealers will offer you a discount of at least 10% without asking if you are buying a complete system.

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by analoguekid
If you think products are overpriced then lobby manufacturer or distributor, or don't buy their products, but give the dealer a break.

EG. Speaker costs £2K to build, sold to dealer by manufacturer for £4K. Sold by Dealer to customer for £8K.

Err, dealer needs to be more realistic IMO

 

[wadia-miester]

Re: tHE SIN OF HIGH END

Originally posted by NeYank
FWIW:

Wilson watt-puppy 7 have about $2,000 USD (maybe 1,200 GBP) in parts. They are sold to the dealer for $10,000 USD. The dealer sells them for $22,000 USD, or here in the UK a whopping 22k GBP.

22K GBP is 1.9 times the price of an already insanely marked up price.

O U C H.

Can't really see a problem here, anyone hearing them for the first time, would either run a mile or may offer £50 for oddball bedside stand

 

[greg]

Originally posted by merlin
EG. Speaker costs £2K to build, sold to dealer by manufacturer for £4K. Sold by Dealer to customer for £8K.

Err, dealer needs to be more realistic IMO

Hear hear!

 

[Hex Spurt]

OK, flame-proof suit time again

In respect of the argument "dealers should sell at lower margins." Why should they? The nature of a business is to make profit in exchange for risk. If any product doesn't sell because it is overpriced then market forces are going to push the manufacturer/distributor/retailer to realign the price or discontinue the product. If prices aren't falling it is because the product is selling well enough to justify the price.

ââ'¬Å"It's got £X worth of parts, but sells for 100 x £X, what a rip offââ'¬Â Yeah, well you just ignored intellectual property. Take computer software as an extreme example. Most of what you pay is for the idea and its development. Next is branding, and it's something people are prepared pay a premium for. Look at Coke compared to the cheap supermarket stuff, I bet it costs the same to make, but which one do your kids want to be seen drinking. I'd lay money on at odds in your favour that it isn't Rola-Cola (thanks, Peter Kay)

As for ââ'¬Å"if the retailer sold it cheaper they'd sell loads moreââ'¬Â There's a whole list of companies that applied this principle who have now gone bust. Thankfully most of them are outside the Hi-Fi industry. It's a nightmare for the customers and the manufacturers who (and I speak from personal experience) are left to pick up the pieces.

This constant whinging about prices is getting right on my tits. I wonder what would happen if you moaners came to sell your houses (those of you that own your own). If I offered you the cost of land plus building materials you'd tell me to F-off because you know you could sell it for more. That's market forces working, so why do you insist the rules should change when there's a bit of Hi-Fi you lust over?

If brand X is out of your league then either set your sights a little lower or earn more money. It's a competitive market, there's lots of choice. Get over it.

Hex

 

[greg]

Originally posted by Hex Spurt
In respect of the argument "dealers should sell at lower margins." Why should they? The nature of a business is to make profit in exchange for risk. If any product doesn't sell because it is overpriced then market forces are going to push the manufacturer/distributor/retailer to realign the price or discontinue the product. If prices aren't falling it is because the product is selling well enough to justify the price.

Well I think the market is changing but unlike more agile industries certain hi-fi dealers are just not responding the way they should - ie. to slash margins and drop prices - at least by a little. The UK car dealers had to do a little of this a few years back for pretty much the exact same reasons.

ââ'¬Å"It's got £X worth of parts, but sells for 100 x £X, what a rip offââ'¬Â Yeah, well you just ignored intellectual property. Take computer software as an extreme example. Most of what you pay is for the idea and its development. Next is branding, and it's something people are prepared pay a premium for. Look at Coke compared to the cheap supermarket stuff, I bet it costs the same to make, but which one do your kids want to be seen drinking. I'd lay money on at odds in your favour that it isn't Rola-Cola (thanks, Peter Kay)

I agree that its bullshit to try and dismantle a retail price based on the price of the original parts. But we are talking dealer margins here not OEM profit margins - no parts list - marketing and sales costs (which can be high) but not 100% sure they really deserve 50% of the final price versus 25% for the OEM (I realise these are fairly typical rough splits.

As for ââ'¬Å"if the retailer sold it cheaper they'd sell loads moreââ'¬Â There's a whole list of companies that applied this principle who have now gone bust. Thankfully most of them are outside the Hi-Fi industry. It's a nightmare for the customers and the manufacturers who (and I speak from personal experience) are left to pick up the pieces.

Yep a delicate balance has to be struck - if prices are slashed then the brand x's long and hard won exclusivity disappears overnight and so does their existing and prospective custom. However, for example, I dont think it's reasonable to charge such great markups on US equipment when sold in the UK. Certain sections of UK retail is bad for hiking prices without justification.

This constant whinging about prices is getting right on my tits. I wonder what would happen if you moaners came to sell your houses (those of you that own your own). If I offered you the cost of land plus building materials you'd tell me to F-off because you know you could sell it for more. That's market forces working, so why do you insist the rules should change when there's a bit of Hi-Fi you lust over?

Well I'm not sure the UK hi-fi market is all that healthy (and the UK property market may soon follow similar patterns)

If brand X is out of your league then either set your sights a little lower or earn more money. It's a competitive market, there's lots of choice. Get over it.

Well I dont buy that either - there are ways and means to obtain brand X without paying UK dealers {tangential personal motto - its not about hopes and dreams its about ways and means} but the opportunity to demo and compare is somewhat lost. The sad thing is I think many folks would be more likely to spend their money in the UK dealers if they felt they were paying a fair price.

These are naturally broad strokes and dont apply to all dealers.

 

[Uncle Ants]

I think people tend to forget that a large part of the "markup" goes to Gordon Brown - Import Duty, VAT and remember, just like your Income Tax/NI - tax on profits - these all take a fairly hefty old chunk - that the raw figures kinda ignore.

 

[greg]

Originally posted by Uncle Ants
I think people tend to forget that a large part of the "markup" goes to Gordon Brown - Import Duty, VAT and remember, just like your Income Tax/NI - tax on profits - these all take a fairly hefty old chunk - that the raw figures kinda ignore.

Good point UA. Eg. a dealer takes some used kit in part exchange - they have to add VAT to the sale price but cant reclaim VAT on the purchase if they wanted to remain competitive with eBay when reselling the kit they have to drop the sale price below market value.

Though in most cases the same apply to the OEM too dont forget.