Can We Hear Differences Between AC Power Cords?

[merlin]

So how do you explain that? Reverse psychology perhaps?

More like inverse audio snobbery I'd say. Michael's crusade to see just how little he can spend on a hifi whilst still convincing himself it's OK. DIY everything, poor quality cabling - can't wait to hear it

It is this inverse snobbery that pollutes all his thinking at the moment, so yes, it's a psycological issue

 

[michaelab]

Why don't you believe me Michael?

I didn't say whether I believed you or not. I'm asking you a question, you haven't answered it.

Lawrie, my comment about the price/performance psychology was a generalisation. It clearly doesn't happen in all cases. Anyway, we're talking about cables here, not two DACs which demonstrably measure quite differently.

It is this inverse snobbery that pollutes all his thinking at the moment

Insulting me won't convince anyone. Your sailing close to the wind .

Michael.

 

[wadia-miester]

If your drifting on an empty ocean, with no wind to fill your sails

 

[sideshowbob]

You may find yourself listening to some music (admittedly through the putrid veil of RFI and voltage spikes!), something the objectivists don't have time to do properly.

I do seem to have a persistent RFI problem with phono where I live, my latest attempt to get around it, the Tom Evans, has problems, largely down to the acrylic casework I think. Fortunately, I'm mostly listening to vinyl in the evenings, when I usually have no problems, as the traffic has largely disappeared. Experiments over the past couple of days show it's definitely the phono stage that's the problem, nothing else. I think I've solved it now though, it's a simple question of proper shielding. In the past I've borrowed wanky wire, wanky mains cables, and even ERS, and none of them made the slightest bit of difference. They only seem to work with RFI of the inaudible variety, i.e., the kind only a neurotic would worry about, they certainly do nothing to alleviate the audible kind. Which suggests, to me at least, that they aren't doing any of the things generally claimed in the marketing brochures.

-- Ian

 

[merlin]

So merlin, you preferred a freebie IC to some expensive Cardas? Or was that not quite so sincere?

I'd say the smiley kind of suggests more than a question Michael

Note I left one off mine. But you still haven't given me an answer. Sitting here reading your posts, it's bleedin' obvious to anyone that you assumed I preferred the more expensive cables because that neatly fits in with your theory. The FACT is I am using the freebie, it sounds better with this player to my ears.

I'm not insulting you Michael, I'm just telling you what I think of the tone of yours and others responses to genuine posts. If you don't like it then fine - ban me.

Have your little domain masquerading as a HiFi Forum - can't see the point really when nothing makes any difference to the sound but hey, I'm sure you find it amusing.

I noticed someone pulled the other thread about DCT. Was that you or did the unfortunate poster remove it through embarrassment?

 

[michaelab]

merlin, you're not making any attempt to enter into a sensible rational debate of any kind. All you're doing is stirring for your own amusement. There comes a point when it's simply not worth the bother of exposing all the inconsistencies in your sniping.

The starter of the DCT thread deleted it himself, no reason was given.

Michael.

 

[notaclue]

those that steadfastly refuse to hear any difference,

Let's not confuse matters. The point is whether people who claim to hear a difference really can hear a physical difference or whether they are imagining it.

"Now, why is it that our senses fail us so? A big part of this, especially when we're talking about audio, has to do with the fact that what seems straightforward and reasonable is not. It seems straightforward and reasonable to listen to a piece of audio equipment and then develop an opinion on how it sounds. Unfortunately, due to the complex way that we humans take in sensory information and then combine it with prior knowledge and experience, the resulting perception may be incorrect. If we really want to know how something sounds, we must separate out prior knowledge and visual cues and force ourselves to only use our ears. This is why we do the test blind."

And when you do that, the difference disappears. In which case, it was probably imagined. Yes?

 

[wadia-miester]

Or not as the case may be

 

[wolfgang]

Notaclue,
I think you should give it a rest. It seem most people have abandon engaging in any sort of coherant discussion. They are all into a windup mode yet again.

 

[joel]

WM, that is a very nice photo of a TEAC transport mechanism you are using (complete with the drawer off a humble VRDS50 no less). A bit out of date now that TEAC are making their own SACD/DVD mechs, but heartwarming to see.

 

[wadia-miester]

Joel,
I realise the the UX-1 mech is different, having owned one, Wadia's new 921's are due out soon, this will have the same unit in it also, with a few tweeks, none the less, its use results in not a subtle upgrade. Wm

 

[notaclue]

Notaclue,
I think you should give it a rest. It seem most people have abandon engaging in any sort of coherant discussion. They are all into a windup mode yet again.

Yup. Probably because there really are no arguments (or excuses) left for not accepting that when we hear differences between electrically similar cables, they are, in all probability, imagined.

In other words... We won!!!! Hurrah!

 

[PBirkett]

More like inverse audio snobbery I'd say. Michael's crusade to see just how little he can spend on a hifi whilst still convincing himself it's OK. DIY everything, poor quality cabling - can't wait to hear it

Believe it or not, it is possible to enjoy a system that costs less than 50 zillion quid

 

[Philip King]

and its certianly possible to dislike a system worth over 50 zillion quid!

 

[Philip King]

" If we really want to know how something sounds, we must separate out prior knowledge and visual cues and force ourselves to only use our ears. This is why we do the test blind."

And when you do that, the difference disappears. In which case, it was probably imagined. Yes?

But nobody actually listens long term to their system behind a felt curtain, thus sighted listening is different to unsighted listening. Yes blind test results are interesting and go a long way to helping people assertain what is important in the actual reproduction of music, but due to their nature the condistions for long term enjoyment are different to short term testing.

slightly poor anology but, I used to work in a running shop, shoes that feel great to wear on the shop treadmill feel very different after 20 miles of hard road ruinning, basically things need to be tested within the context of there everyday use.

 

[sideshowbob]

due to their nature the condistions for long term enjoyment are different to short term testing.

Establishing a preference ("I prefer A to B") is different to establishing a difference ("I can tell A from B"). ABX testing is designed to test the latter, not the former.

-- Ian

 

[michaelab]

Establishing a preference ("I prefer A to B") is different to establishing a difference ("I can tell A from B"). ABX testing is designed to test the latter, not the former.

Exactly, and one of the (many) flaws with the HF+ cable test was that they were trying to test the latter by doing the former.

Michael.

 

[wolfgang]

Philip,
That is a good point. See my attempt to rise this morning.

Notaclue,
There are no winner and loser in this debate just a lot of hot air. Most of the key players in the forum have science degrees and they know the significance of this article. You would never get them to say it.

 

[merlin]

There comes a point when it's simply not worth the bother of exposing all the inconsistencies in your sniping.

The starter of the DCT thread deleted it himself, no reason was given.

Michael.

Oh go on Michael, expose them if you will. I'm sure I'm man enough not to skirt around the issue.

I wonder why another forum member decided to delete his thread? Don't you?

 

[PeteH]

Yes blind test results are interesting and go a long way to helping people assertain what is important in the actual reproduction of music, but due to their nature the condistions for long term enjoyment are different to short term testing.

Of course, because the requirements for 'long term enjoyment' are, as with any piece of consumer electronics, not merely functional ones. Basically, the sound clearly isn't all that matters, and I certainly don't have any problem with that (why do you think I bought my Quads? ).

However, what blind tests are useful for is in answering simple but fundamental questions like "is there an audible difference between A and B" - which, in the case of this system being connected with a 99p kettle lead or £2000-odd worth of Nordost, there clearly isn't.