Dark Side Of The Moon,and bass

who's Pete?

 

he is a mate of Gordon,another mate of mine,surname Bennet

changing feet made no difference to cone wobble

oh well,another subject i know little about to impress my mates at work with

 

Something doesn't add up. What makes you say you get "proper bass" with a TT? Whatever failings CD may have, being able to faithfully record and playback bass is not one of them.

Err...exactly how does it "take the piss" out of the CD version? Since Julian has an entirely 16/44.1 digital based system and he has that track from a CD you made by recording the 12" (I'm presuming) then there's nothing inherent about digital or CDs that stops those kinds of massive bass cone excusrions (I witnessed it at Julian's place). The reason it's not on the original CD or that you get that effect with hardly any CDs at all means that it's likely that this kind of cone flap you get with TTs is an artefact that shouldn't be there and has nothing to do with the music. I'd be interested to know why it happens though. Incidentally it also lends support to the argument used by many that if you record vinyl to CD you get a CD that sounds like vinyl

Michael.

 

theres a little bit of info here,at first i thought i had a problem with my phono stage but it olny hapened when i put the needle on the record,doubt if its floor movnent as the turntable shelf is rawbolted to the wall,will get around to curing it one day

 

You need to find the original Mobile Fidelity vinyl version of this as well.....deeper and better defined bass,and so much clearer all round....absolutely lovely,and very collectible.

 

:SLEEP: :SLEEP: :SLEEP:

Err we go again


Recording Open Up from vinyl onto CD results in an experience that takes the piss out of the commercial album release, which is one of the better CD's on the market. I could not give a flying wombat's nob if the cone excursion is huge, the bottom end energy certainly is and that's what counts.

 

A flying wobats knob eh?, spanking little gem there Merlin my boy
Mike B, even I have to agree with Merlin here, serious proper bass only really comes from TT's, and maybe the odd piece of yank iron

 

yep, Merlin is right. My TT is below par to my CDp, but the one thing it will do better is proper palpable, chunky chewy bass

 

A decent piece of vinyl on a good turntable seems to get the natural decay of a bass note better than most CDs. IME. In theory vinyl doesn't go deeper than CD though (or it does, depending on who you ask).

I've never personally experienced cone flap, sounds like something isn't quite right to me, but I've no idea what it might be.

-- Ian

 

Chewy bass eh?, outstanding. Best pass some over the professional monitor users then sir

 

I am none the wiser,except LPs seem to do something to my speakers that CDs don't

 

Must admit, yours was chewier sir. Like the beef jerky of bass.

Chewier than Barrow in Furness bus station!

 

Beef jurky of bass and flying whobats knob,Barrow in Furness bus depot, its all go on Z/G today
Saab,

I've whitnessed this cones flapping before sir, usually when I'm playing at a strip joint

 

Where's SCIDB when you need him?

I think 7_V's resonance suggestion is worth exploring, somebody on PFM is bound to know more.

-- Ian

 

I think they frown at plebs asking simple questions,

is it me rack? is it me arm? is it set-up?? wha? wha? WHAT!!

 

It's just vinyl. My old speakers used to do it. It's very low frequency noise either from the bearing, the motor or a warp. It's going at about 1-3hz so you cannae hear it as your speakers can't shift enough air to create the sound. My newer transmission lines seem less prone to it.

 

It's wrong for cones to 'flap'. You either have a turntable/cart/arm incompatibility, a problem with the support or a bad pre amp.

I've just got all nerdy and examined my woofers while playing DSOTM from vinyl and CD. It looks pretty much the same, as you'd expect.

(It's a little bit funny, these TT newbies with broken systems, should have bought an LP12...)

Paul

 

You could try the Vinyl Asylum maybe - If you aren't ignored you'll get 20 suggestions from them - at least half of which will be stupid but the other half may be sensible.

Its clear something is putting some pretty low frequencies into the system. How rapid are these cone excursions? If the discs were warped it might suggest a cartridge/tonearm matching issue. But you've got an RB300 right? Pretty much medium mass and happy with most carts at both ends of the compliance spectrum, so that seems unlikely. Must confess its not something I've ever experienced - only read about.

I did find a little discussion fo the subject here
Claims their its fairly common and inaudible. Also claims its harmless so long as your speaker cones aren't bottoming out - not so sure about that last one mind.

I also seem to remember reading (don't know where) that some parts of DSOTM - the bit at the beginning with the heart beat effect for example, potentially has stuff down to 16Hz - if that's making it through to your speakers,wouldn't that give them a bit of a wibble?

 

You seemed to be implying that the cone flap was evidence of a TT doing "proper bass". When I've seen it, like lordsummit says, it's usually below 5Hz and having a bass cone flapping back and forth an inch or two at 5Hz I'd imagine is not going to do amazing things for it's ability to represent the audible spectrum properly (not to mention what stress your amp is going through to make it do that).

Michael.

 

Hmmm. Thinking about it, it can't really be a good thing can it? S'funny, the only time I ever saw a cone noticeably "flap" in any way was playing a CD, not vinyl - just about three seconds of it about half way into Hey Boy, Hey Girl on the Chemical Brother's Surrender, there's a break and a wibbly noise (sounds a bit like an electronic Rolf and his wobble board) - send my speakers into a bit of a fit.