Got me a record player!

Mine sounds nothing like this, it actually sounds clean and natural.

Hi Robbo,

There's the 'clean' thing again. Real music doesn't necessarily sound 'clean', there's a wealth of low-level overtones/resonances along with the recording acoustic/ambient cues. Little of this is audible on CD because of the limitations of the mastering.

The leaves are off the tree, and it looks 'clean'.

Yes, CD can get 'close to' the real thing, but ....
 
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James,
most vinyl since about 1980 or earlier has involved the signal being adc'd and then dac'ed at some point (often numerous times) so your argument that there are 'mastering problems' with cd is just as valid as saying that there are mastering problems with vinyl in fact vinyl is 'worse' as it has to be dac'ed too whereas cd doesn;'t. the only way you won;t get any mastering problems with vinyl is by direct cutting and that's not that common any more.

just accept it some people find vinyl different not better than cd.

cheers

julian
 
When I say clean, I mean undistorted, free from artifice, souding realistic. Oh, and I do get quite a lot of low level detail and ambience actually.

I know 24 bit is better, all I am saying is that you can still get bloody good music from a CD source, if a) you choose the right kit b) you set it up properly. That's all.

I for one, have reached a level of fidelity that I am happy to live with.

This is the last post from me on this thread. I have made all of the points I wanted.
 
It's been an interesting discussion. I'm not trying to suggest that CD is 'bad'. In isolation it's quite enjoyable. It's just when you have something better to compare CD sound with, it sort-of loses some of its sheen. The demo last weekend really showed up some of the limitations inherent to the medium. An ear-opener.

Of course vinyl isn't perfect either, and it can be very frustrating at times. When the TT is sick in some way it lets you know in a most unpleasant way.
 
Originally posted by The Devil
The demo last weekend really showed up some of the limitations inherent to the medium. An ear-opener.
Click to expand...

One demo and you can found limitations in a whole medium? Impressive.

I listened to the Cheeky Girls last weekend, all pop music is dross.
________
FORD WIKI
 
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It is simply a matter of cash

Chaps

I have a Naim CDS2 and it sounds pretty good. The CDS3 sounds one heck of a lot better.

I recently heard a Garrard 501 and that was even better. The sound was unbelievable. Therefore it seems, to me at least, that vinyl is best but you do need to spend the money to get the best sound.......sad but true.

Bubs Ninja and the 501 are both expensive toys but they are damned good.

Regards

Mick
 
Hate to say this Ian, but I dont really understand why you are getting so wound up about all this and trying to convince us CD lovers that we are not on the one true path.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to convince anyone of that, and I'm not wound up either. I'm just trying to get people to describe what they like about digital without using analogue as a reference, to see if they can start thinking about the differences between the two media, which are undoubtedly there. Given that there are no "analogue" sounding CD players IME, digitalians ought to be able to describe what it is that CD does so well in different terms. Julian's made a reasonable stab at it, Michael not really. Given that this thread was started by Merlin - Mr Digital - who has posted some good stuff about what he's been hearing this week, and now has a good idea of what CD is incapable of, I thought it would be interesting to find out what CD-only people think they're gaining with such an approach. Given how dull the forum has been recently, a bit of an argument seemed like a good idea as well.

But, as I said, I've given up now.

-- Ian
 
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ian,
don;t give up. it's cracked 20 pages with only a slight amount of circularity and dogmatism. there hasn't been any porcine repetitive carpet bombing and tempers seem remarkably cool about such an emotive and close held subject.

cheers


julian
 
There's the 'clean' thing again. Real music doesn't necessarily sound 'clean', there's a wealth of low-level overtones/resonances along with the recording acoustic/ambient cues. Little of this is audible on CD because of the limitations of the mastering.
Click to expand...

There you go again, trying to convince us that surface noise is detail... :p

You PPs keep using Merlin's experience as evidence that TT sounds better, in a different argument you would say his system sucks because it is over equalized, etc... :rolleyes:

Now, maybe, just maybe, his digital system is not as good as you now conviniently seem to believe, maybe the things he liked on his TT experience are missing from HIS digital system, maybe proper digital systems sound right, period... :JPS:

PS - Merlin this is not a personal attack, I also equalize now, and think it works great... :p
 
Originally posted by lowrider
Now, maybe, just maybe, his digital system is not as good as you now conviniently seem to believe, maybe the things he liked on his TT experience are missing from HIS digital system, maybe proper digital systems sound right, period... :JPS:

PS - Merlin this is not a personal attack, I also equalize now, and think it works great... :p
Click to expand...

Thanks Antonio, I understand your comments. The truth is, the comparison was done through the TacT system, the only difference being the players. In the one corner we have a TeacP30, which most would agree is a fine CD spinner. In the other we had the TT. They both used the same Dacs, the difference being that the TT had to go through an additional A/D stage.

So my experience was based on comparing the actual players rather than the systems as such. I am struggling to let the vinyl side go, so much so that I am considering dropping the TacT Power Amp, and replacing with an MSB/BC combo that would enable the TT to be played without A/D on occasion, whilst still retaining the TacT's very unique abilities for everyday listening. I figure it could be worth it for the times when I just want that vinyl magic as opposed to my normal fair.
 
I may be stupid, but not quite enough to mistake surface noise for detail!

CD gives you a sharp picture of trees with no leaves; vinyl gives you a pretty sharp picture of New England in the 'Fall'. In fills in the gaps left by CD

I would ask the CD-only brigade this: Given that vinyl is a lot more hassle than CD, why do you think that we put ourselves through it? Do you imagine that we are just a load of eccentric old fogeys living in the past?

Mick is partly right about spending to get a good sound, but I would still maintain that a well-set-up mid-spec LP12 will see off any CD player with ease.

One demo and you can found limitations in a whole medium? Impressive.

Yes it was very impressive. The inventors of CD were having a laugh. They MUST have known about the loss of quality.
 
Cor blimey, 20 pages and we're still going!! :eek:

Merl, so you're still in two minds whether to give the TT the boot or not eh? :)

Thought it was a foregone conclusion that you'd be giving up the Orbe and its supporting cast. :confused:
 
Originally posted by The Devil
I think Merlin has seen the light. Oh, how I like a convert!
Click to expand...

For the nay sayers, much as I was, please let me expand on James' tree analogy.

The outline of a bare tree in winter is far more defined, making it possible to pick out the shape very easily.

Now how many of you prefer the appearence of trees over the winter months to the beauty on show throughout the Summer:confused:

Now I am finding it surprisingly difficult to change season;)
 
a frost and spiderweb encrusted tree has a different beauty to a tree in full bloom. not better, different. not that i'm buying into the analogy as i don;t think analog gives any more detail than digital they just have different colorations - more like a tree in summer and a tree in autumn - which is which i'll leave to you.

cheers

julian
 
PMSL!

So now we're arguing over the season in which the tree (which is a CD player and a TT apparently) most resembles a music playing format?!?!


LOL this is great.

Im really going to hide behind the sofa after this one - I think turntables need a valve phono stage - like a graaf, Auiod Innovations, EAR, WAD etc to lose the final layer of artifice..... and truly become a tree in summer! lolol



:D Chris
 
I'd say a TT is like adding a sepia filter to a fine lens, it can hide the tree, if it isn't that nice... :rolleyes:
 
There's much to be said for Spring and Autumn trees too.

Oh, and please keep your Sepia filter away from my TT, thank you. Maybe my Planet needs a bit of Vaseline on the lens though.

Steve
 
It's surprising that people who don't own TTs (and who, in one or two instances, have never even heard a good one) seem to be giving the impression that they know what a good TT sounds like in comparison to CD.

Well, ignorance is bliss I guess.
 
Absolutely James;)

What does surprise me is the reluctance just to give it a go:confused: I mean why not:confused:

Julian also insists on mentioning things like soft bass, wooly imaging, background noise levels etc etc...

Julian, I understand and have said the same before. I also agree with you in hifi terms you are, as usual, correct. However, I am talking purely on the musical connection level, nothing more (although if you listen "through" your observations, I suspect you might hear greater fine detail as well due to enhanced resolution).

Anyway, enough about trees:D I think we could be here until Armageddon and some of our members will not get it, or will choose to ignore it. That's fine, I fully understand:) But I am telling you, there IS something out there;)
 

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