Got me a record player!

Oh... Henry's turntable - drool drool DROOL! AND he lets me cue stuff up on it - a bit more, ahem, involved than on my MDF cheapo Regas

Merlin - you are the luckiest SOB alive today dude - the arm on it's own is worth over half what you paid 2nd hand (I believe) and Henry got his Orbe on the strength of a VERY good hifi show dem of the Orbe, using SME V (again) and (I think) a rebuilt Koetsu Red Signature or Urushi - it was so good even I managed to listen to a whole side of plinky classical without dying of boredom or falling asleep - no mean feat! As it happened, I nearly got up and applauded - it was THAT involving

Seriously jealous here (but that's a bad emotion, so I'm happy for you really - but yeah, get that nasty ADC out of the equation and sort the room out rather than the system! Oh - and the output from vinyl is usually always lower than CD, so that's nothing to worry about

 

There are internal dip switches I believe.

Bear in mind different cartridges sound different (often *very* different), so the colourations you're describing may actually be the cart.

If you're listening for "veils being lifted" and the like you may be an incorrogible digitalian. I know what good digital sounds like, and it isn't my personal preference...

-- Ian

 

Thanks for that Ian,

Managed to exchange a load of old stuff I had lying around for an Audio Research CA50, so I'll try sticking the TT into that and rig up some old Response 1SC's. We'll try it as a completely separate system. If that gives a glimpse of potential then I might well start to investigate more seriously.

But you might be right Ian that I personally cannot accept the compromises inherent in vinyl reproduction.

 

Thing is merlin, what we vinyl head comprimise for is the fluidity of record, I havn't purchased a CD in over a year and my CDP ain't cheap. Records just sound more natural and more involving.

I am prepared to forgo a bit of 'inky blackness' for that fluidity.

You need to be fair to a 2K deck though and set it up properly and give it the proper output, quite frankly losing a fancy EQ would be a good start, and as has been mentioned a proper phono stage of some sort, although I confess I am not sure what you have now.

The midband colouration I am guessing is your way of describing a 'bloomed' sound. This could well be the cartridge, you mention that its not set up correctly if its been used like that then the cart might be damaged. It could also be set to heavy or too far back in the head shell.

 

What, you mean you just have a pair lying around doing nothing

BTW, what finish are they? fancy a swap?

I also remain unconvinced that a TT is really that much better than a top CD player. Different, yes. I think it is more down to personal preference.

 

Hi Merlin

I'd like to think if you got the Trichord phonostage with the Orbe that it will be configured correctly.

Details of the stage are here http://www.trichordresearch.com/delphinis.html

Details of Koetsu carts are here
http://www.needledoctor.com

A silly question, but did you buy it all together, and did you remove the platter when you transported it? (If no, it needs a compete overhaul)


NB
I believe you live near London?
Both Walrus and the listening rooms I can reccomend for a setup

NNB
Wish I had a SME V

 

Too right mate, like all hifi, its down to personal preference of the type of sound prefered.

.... I think Merlin will find though, that some recordings on vinyl (especially pre 1980) are substantially better recorded than the CD recording. Hopefully he can then have the best of both worlds.

Merlin..
Im still amazed you took the plunge on a £2k deck when you have a CD based digital system.

Why the sudden splurge of cash mate?

Chris

 

This thread is really interesting as Merlin is Mr Digital who used to abuse (in the nicest sence the TT boys's along with moi ) about the lack of detail/dynamics/bass etc, however there is no denying the natural fuildity of a proper Vyinal set up, which is why the 1'a & 0's merchants are always trying to recrate it.
So it's the veneable TT's V's CDP's again, well er. not quite
you see, Ian (sideshow) hit the nail on the head, it's what you are used to/accustomed too, if you drive a Porsche for a while then going to a Ferriari is a departure and half, they both are great at what they do, just do it form different angles :devil:
And although the other is every bit as good or even some times better , it's such a departure than you just don't dig it, even though it's great.
This year I've been fortunate enough to hear a couple of 'Decent Vynial' replay systems, and they are fooking good no quibble, however the things I'm looking for in a system they just don't have enough of but they do flow musical superbly well and are simply analogue, but for me is this enough?, and for the vynial boys is what we have too much, or they simply don't like it?
This isn't a TT are naff thread or cdp's are miles better, just different both equaly valid, but different. however the TT guys should realise we can really get some fab sounds that may make them think, might not change them, but well time moves on. WM

 

The thing for a lot of us Tony, is that we have come from CD backgrounds. I am not old, my first ever stereo had a CDP on it, it was an all in one then called 'midi' system and was by a company called Shneider. They still going?

Anyhoo it was great and very soon after the release. I remember bugging my dad not realising the cost of these things. I got Brothers In Arms with it on CD and it was one of the first pressing to be put to CD, I still have it.

I have listened to music and enjoyed stero ever since, its only in the last four years that I have been turned on by vinyl. I appriciate things have moved on, but for me vinyl just sounds better.

Although I do have the Division bell playing on CD right now and it sounds supurb. I was driving home and thought, I just have to hear it.

Then I scoured the web this afternoon to find it on vinyl (its what I do now!) There are a couple on ebay but I can see it going mad, I pushed to 25 quid but can't afford no more.

Damn.

 

It's all right, I'm not aware of any side-effects of being a digitalian. Apart from going straight to hell of course...

I sold my CDP to buy a new cartridge, and am happy in the digital cheap seats, so I suspect we listen very differently.

-- Ian

 

I'm no authority on the Orbe having gone the Notts Analog route however, I recall some discussion on the TNT site regarding the midbass colouration that you describe. If memory serves me rightly it something to do with the mounting plate of the Orbe when matched to the SME arms. Aparently its something that Mitchel are aware of?

TNT apparently have a cheap fix involving blue tack.

I would check the articles very interesting and informative. The articles are towards the end of the TNT Orbe vs other TT's series.

S+P

here's the link

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/orbetweak_e.html

 

I'm with S+P here. There's no intrinsic reason why analogue sound need be coloured. I'd love to see you take analogue as far as you can. Nothing wrong with having a foot in both camps.

Steve

 

Thanks for all the tips guys

I am lucky enough to have a friend who is a bit of an expert when it comes to setup. He is coming over tomorrow lunchtime to tune the beast I do need to get it professionaly setup really, even plonked on the rack, I admit I can hear some of that fluency that you all harp on about

The problem for me is that my room really does need the Tact. There's a big suckout in the upper bass which leaves even a top end vinyl rig sounding thin and lacking body when the correction is out of circuit I know many will not believe this, but it is easily demonstrable.

The reason for the purchase was really to have the option. I happen to agree with Chris that recordings made prior to the 80's simply sound more natural on vinyl (even when converted to 24/192 ) and I would like to get some of my old favourites back. The guy I bought the kit from is also shipping a reasonable collection (mainly classical) so I may well releive him of the black stuff. I fancy listening to something different anyway.

I also want to get back into the classic early 70's period (Led Zep, Bowie, Marvin Gaye, Philly, Atlantic, Genesis etc). I beleive the only way to currently really enjoy that era is by using a TT, although for later music, I must admit to erring on the digital side. After all, they were mastered digitally anyway, so I doubt you can put back the feel of the analogue master. Many of my favourite CD's are analogue masters, and my demo CD from Peter is recorded from Sheffield Labs Direct Cut vinyl. Plus I fancy picking up collections of vinyl at silly prices and discovering new music.

So tomorrow will tell me much I suspect, hopefully the Koetsu is in OK nick as I don't fancy paying 3K for a rebuild Hopefully in the future I will get value from both formats, I cannot see vinyl replacing my CD's. Even if the setup results in wonderful results (which I hope it does) I still feel there are certain things top class CD replay will always do better. FWIW, I think some of the CD players on the market nowadays, from the likes of Wadia, Teac, Audionet, Chord etc, come dangerously close to that fluidity that vinyl fanatics crave. Roll on Tomorrow afternoon

 

Merlin, you are redeemed!

-- Ian

 

Merlin,

You are doomed... :newbie:

 

Merlin.

Face it you smiled when you heard that record.

You are doomed.

 

I hate to admit it Gary but listening to "Just Once" from "The Dude" gave me bloody goosebumps This despite no setup yet. So the midrange is kinda cool

And before all you anachrophiles start pointing the finger, that was still using digital room correction and digital amplification

Without the correction, the body just disappears, so maybe there is room for both technology and engineering

 

'Its begun..."

Na seriously, as far as I am concerned record will give you access to loads of cheap music, and can be used to your advanatge in discovering new stuff without breaking the bank.

I hope you will enjoy it. You have paid out the big money now start looking for the records. Don't be afraid of ebay I have purchased loads of record and out of about 40 records only one was bad, I got me money back. Currently there are over 33,000 records on ebay in the uk alone, and frankly its a buyers market I got a mint copy of Grand Wazoo, Frank zappa for 9 quid last week, jesus.

 

Well, not if your tastes are in the rocksteady/reggae vein when in fact its a complete seller's market with old 70's stuff regulary going for £100/200 plus!

This genre is one area where the best CDP's are just never gonna make it soundwise as the cd reissues are invariably done from disc as the original masters have long faded from exsitence!

In this genre if you want to hear it as it was meant to be you need to go vinyl.

I'm cursed!

S+P

 

Talking of which, does anyone know anything about a remastering expert called Steve Hoffman? he has a site and forum on www.stevehoffman.tv.

I'd be interested to hear more about him.

Steve