[QUOTE=domfjbrown]Err, Lee, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought your brakes WERE working, ie, hard enough to lock the back wheel and thus throw you off??? Certainly it could be pads, my v-brakes with those £10 a pop pads stop me pretty damn quick when I need it, even bombing down Thornepark Rise (I don't want to tempt fate here though ;))[/QUOTE] Porblem is dom it all happened so fast I can't really 100% remember how it happened, but I have been reading a lot about brakes [URL=http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-adjustment.html]Especially this website[/URL] and "efficency" dam can't remember the term used, mechanical advantage or something, anyway my theory is that although they worked ie touched the rims I don't think I was able to apply enough preasure to force the pads into the rim, thus they where not applying enough friction to the rim, thus I didn't slow down, even though I was pulling hard on the levers, my brakes only locked when I hit the gravel but by then I was already hitting 25 mph and had no chance. I want to prevent this happening again so its either a brake or a bike upgrade. What does annoy me though is that the bike was checked over not 3 weeks before (a bike safety compaign they were running at work where a local bike shop checked over you bike) and given the all clear. Is there a good way to test brake efficency other than the unreliable push bike with brake on test? Also Dom I have the old style Cantilever brakes you have V-brakes, V's are supposed to be better, and I can get an upgrade kit from wiggle for £30 just wondering if this is worth while doing. Ya I hate cycling in the wet, brakes are totally usless in the wet.