Home made equipment isolation platforms.......?

[Corky]

and therefor will easily transmit vibration to another structure [and the reverse]

That could be quite interesting... especially used as a top shelf on say sorbothane feet. I wonder, would that mean it might readily take vibration out of whatever is standing on it? Like a cheaper way of achieving Rollerblocks?

 

[YNMOAN]

OK - here goes - it is reasonably rigid - it is not very light - it is quite expensive. When Corian is used for work surfaces it is usually a 10 or 12mm layer glued to a thick MDF substrate (to save money and strengthen the slightly brittle Corian). A Corian edge is glued on to make it look thick (I said it glues very well ). I wouldn't say it is known as a good absorber of vibration but over the years a few (expensive) speakers have used it or similar (Dupont do a very similar material called Fountainhead) for their cabinets.

 

[zanash]

corky...

what style of support are you building .....

I can see corian working in a system that couples it to the floor or wall ...allowing said vibrations to escape ...

the only real way to know is to build a test bed ...and use a stethoscope to hear whats happening to the transmitted vibrations....

 

[Corky]

corky...

what style of support are you building .....

I can see corian working in a system that couples it to the floor or wall ...allowing said vibrations to escape ...

the only real way to know is to build a test bed ...and use a stethoscope to hear whats happening to the transmitted vibrations....

Pretty conventional shelf-based unit but wide rather than tall. I tried one of the very expensive Audiophile racks with mixed results I felt mainly due to its height and relative instability (and took an absolute beating from an unscrupulous ebayer that cost me many, many hundreds of pounds, but that's another story).

I am planning something that looks like a piece of furniture with two bays of three shelves and ply facings on each end in the hope of decorative and functional role. I plan mdf (and have more or less moved on to planning to try a laminate of mdf and chip board for the shelves) coated in paint or varnish or maybe a material - cloth, vinyl or leather. So pretty conventional, standing on the floor and using a suspension system that uses a tripod approach to the legs with only one or maybe 2 contacts with floor on each corner and dowels connecting that structure back to the unit at the corners.

I began a Sketchup drawing but I'm working on my house all hours at the moment so that isn't going to happen any time soon

My question about Corian is really me checking out that I'm not overlooking a relatively cheap way of achieving something more than say marble or granite might acheive at lower cost.

Having looked at/tried a +£1,000 design, I am aiming at more like £200 or maybe £300 finished. The design will allow me to make the basic unit relatively easily and then make the tripod legs when I have the time as they're a far more involved piece of work but will reward care I think.

I'm not against wall mounting - might seriously consider that eventually. We though, are in the process of moving 300 miles from a large Victorian house we own (apart from what the bank owns of course :JOEL to a tiny one bed rented flat, so wall shelves are out for some time.

Interestingly, I used to have everything piled up on an old Ikea table with Sorbothane feet between everything and it was more successful than it had any right to be. My desire for the unit is to give a decent sonic performance and - probably equally important - organise and separate the equipment efficiently.

A drawing would have been so much easier to understand!

 

[Corky]

OK - here goes - it is reasonably rigid - it is not very light - it is quite expensive. When Corian is used for work surfaces it is usually a 10 or 12mm layer glued to a thick MDF substrate (to save money and strengthen the slightly brittle Corian). A Corian edge is glued on to make it look thick (I said it glues very well ). I wouldn't say it is known as a good absorber of vibration but over the years a few (expensive) speakers have used it or similar (Dupont do a very similar material called Fountainhead) for their cabinets.

Yes, one of the important things I took from what PC had written in his articles is that it can be as effective to go with a material with known sonic performance and colour as to try to find a way to completely isolate the material - use it as an active part of the system.

I guess the only way to find out is to try

 

[YNMOAN]

Indeed it is

I wouldn't describe Corian as cheap though - less expensive than granite but not by a large margin.

 

[DavidF]

Just a short note...and this seems a good pace to put it....

Better sense took a back seat a day ortwo ago and I decided to review the supports underneath my rack.

Breifly, I placed a set of cones+bearings under the rack.......and also under the slab.....



The results(not for the first time) leave me wondering what the full potental for this subject IS.



I haven't read through you note yet Corky.......but I will!

 

[sq225917]

David, maybe your gear just doesn't need it.

like i don't need glasses......

 

[DavidF]

David, maybe your gear just doesn't need it.

like i don't need glasses......

I think we've got a bit at crossed purposes here, sq.

My point was that I felt the cones review had made a very good sonic improvement.

 

[Corky]

Just a short note...and this seems a good pace to put it....

Better sense took a back seat a day ortwo ago and I decided to review the supports underneath my rack.

Breifly, I placed a set of cones+bearings under the rack.......and also under the slab.....



The results(not for the first time) leave me wondering what the full potental for this subject IS.

I haven't read through you note yet Corky.......but I will!

That is interesting.
Is it/are they a Rollerblock kind of thing David? Where'd you get the cones and bearings from and what are they made from?

On reading my note; a picture would be so much clearer but I don't have the time!

Off to listen to some cartridges tomorrow morning though
Got time for that!

 

[DavidF]

Got time for that!

Hmmmmm..

a man after my own heart!

This si the design I am working with, though I am now sinking the ball futher in to the cones.

I use a router to make the holes, ideally a precise semi circle for the balls to sit in.

IME the devil is the detail with this job!

The cones I am turning myself, out of oak.

The balls (now approx 16mil) are from a local supplier in Shrewsbury. (i can let you know hwo if you would like?)

I might also add that they are improved for a coat of wax......it hardens the surface.....but they are still able to absorb vibs well.

 

[YNMOAN]

like i don't need glasses......

Oh yeah....

You aint wrong there

P.S. A froend of mine is working on a ceramic cone/ball combination isolation footer thing.

 

[Corky]

Hmmmmm..

a man after my own heart!

This si the design I am working with, though I am now sinking the ball futher in to the cones.

I use a router to make the holes, ideally a precise semi circle for the balls to sit in.

IME the devil is the detail with this job!

The cones I am turning myself, out of oak.

The balls (now approx 16mil) are from a local supplier in Shrewsbury. (i can let you know hwo if you would like?)

I might also add that they are improved for a coat of wax......it hardens the surface.....but they are still able to absorb vibs well.

What a great piece of work - those things are beautiful! Great idea too. I work quite a bit with wood but don't do any turning - no gear or space to do it

Solid oak? So at a guess, they're coming in at £30 - £40 for three? Is that right?

My understanding is that the theory, such as it is, is that the bearings take vibration out of the equipment above - that's right, isn't it? I guess with yours, the bearing is free to move but 'captive'; the oak, very dense but with grain running away from the bearing surface could carry that vibration away?

What equipment have you tried them on? Rollerblocks and the like have a reputation for being really good under some equipment, don't they? Especially if placed directly under a transformer, for example?

I am guessing but looking at the other things in the picture, they seem to be about 3" diameter - is that right? Height with bearing around the same?

I wonder what they performance would be like if they were reduced to half that size?

 

[DavidF]

Corky,

Thanks for your kind comments!

I was doing them for other forum members but I had to stop for a variety of reasons.

I'll answer your post in point form, its just easier,


1) Not sure on price if I was doing them. I guess you wouldn't be far out.


2) The idae of the cones is that the oak absorbs the vibs (it is reputed for it as a marterial....its under my Dad's canal boat engine). As you say mechanical vibs are drained away from equip, through the cones and disspated away by the balls, which are free to vibrate in their holes.

Vibrations absorbed by the equipment rack etc i.e. fed back to your kit are not transmitted through the ball upwards (or should I say the movement is minimised).

So the ball cone idea seems to have a two fold function.

AS you say the ball being captive is the key.

The relationshiip between ball and cone (ie the cone surface) as you hinted at, is an important one! Carefully sanding that surface dead smooth has produced (IMO) astonishing results.


3) I have tried them on principally my own kit +a few others(generally favourable comments I think!)

At xmas I tried them on my brothers Musical Fidelity x ray v/ x 10 (?) and Spendor combo.

My bothers is NOT a tweaker (and I had to twist his arm a bit! )) but even he had to agree it certainly sounded no worse! I am cetain they expanded the sound satge.


4) No, I haven't tried roller blocks.


5) Size wise they (in the pic) proabably are the size you say. IME the bigger the better!

Dare I say it they sound better still with a small amount of balsa wood included ! (another favouite marterial)

The ones I am using are I think nearer 5"!


6) Half the size?

YOu get half the benefit!!


7) I would also say that the BB size (IMO) has a major impact on final sonics.....but thats another subject entirely........

 

[Corky]

ha ha ha, so size does matter then

But they are seriously cool looking and look like they could get the job done too - so all power to your elbow!

What I was thinking was that in the case of smaller vibes, like say the transformers in my CD and DAC, smaller mass in the sink to drain it away. Larger vibes, like the ones from the big transformers in my power amps, bigger mass in the sink to drain it away? So a range of sizes for different applications. Vibration from vinyl source - motor -, probably large mass as it vibrate at much higher level but main gain by putting the ball directly under the motor.

But then, I've already owned up to being physics and engineering ignorant, so I'll leave that alone now

I'd be interested in getting my hands on some though David, after I've jumped to hyperspace (read Yorkshire) and things have calmed down a bit. So maybe you could give me your source for the bearings, even if I have to find someone to turn up the oak blanks for me

 

[DavidF]

ha ha ha, so size does matter then

I wouldn't be so incautious as to state an opinion!





It certainly does here though!

Your questions about the vibration are good ones; in honesty I'm not sure of the finer details on this either. . I wish I did have that sort of back ground!

The problem I hit whe making the cones was cutting the pieces of oak to size having turned the blank.

The options I tried; (having marked out the turned blank on the lathe)

1) Cutting off the slices (horrible term....I can't think of another) with a saw.

Slow cutting/usually needed a LOT of sanding to size after.

NO.



2) Using a parting tool on the lathe

Again slow/ wastes a lot of wood.


3) Using a mitre saw to take the slices off.

Certainly fast!

Accuracy an issue/also the imminent danger of removing my fingers with equal speed.

NO.


4) Using a hack saw with the blank spining on the lathe

Horrendously slow....although the cuts are quite accurate.

Still no.



....and thats where it got left


.


The snag is the indiviadiual cones need to be pretty much indentical in height. Any deviance means a lot of sanding (imo anyway).


At at another member's suggestion (you all right, Mark?) I'm going to go back to the parting tool again because I think thats my best bet to date.

I've documented this in case anyelse has any other ideas(?)

 

[DavidF]

My hope was that someone here has tried it and can say "forget it, it's hopeless", or "yes, rigid and light works well with source equipment but not worth the money for the rest of the system", or some such.

What do you think?

I'm not sure as I can anything as dogmatic as hopeless or the like.

From what I've read I'm homing in on oak.....and balsa (VERY good.....and very renewable).

For mass I'm using quite a lot of granite, damped by rubber. (Check out "place mats" etc in granite supplied by the local supermarkets)

(I did get reat improvement when I damped my stands with rubber)

I think you are right to be combining materials which will absord diff frequencies.

I am never totally sure when to disispate vibs and when to absorb. The thing Ive done is to look at existing iso platforms on the net and try to to replicate an overall design.

 

[DavidF]

[
IMy question about Corian is really me checking out that I'm not overlooking a relatively cheap way of achieving something more than say marble or granite might acheive at lower cost.

Run with granite

YOu know its gonna work.

I'm not against wall mounting - might seriously consider that eventually.

From what i've gatheed this si a good way to go...though I haven't done it!

( a future projct for my Thorens TT )

Interestingly, I used to have everything piled up on an old Ikea table with Sorbothane feet between everything and it was more successful than it had any right to be. My desire for the unit is to give a decent sonic performance and - probably equally important - organise and separate the equipment efficiently.

Have you loked at "lack racks"?

They seem to work for people....might save you a lot of sawing?



I would just add....the more layers you camke between isolation (cones OR spikes) eg Mana style....seems to work well.

Also when I aligned all the cones (three layers!) at the botom of my rack so that each was in line with each other...that in itself gave a big jump.

 

[Corky]

...snip
The problem I hit whe making the cones was cutting the pieces of oak to size having turned the blank.
...snip

I've documented this in case anyelse has any other ideas(?)

Have you tried a band saw? I don't have one myself but I know of folk who have had a local joinery shop cut stuff on the band saw for little pennies.

As a setup for multiple pieces of pre set size, I imagined a jig to hold the work safely: ply box open at the end and work piece held with a wedge or two.

having cut three, a second jig with three bays and a base plate the put them all level at the bottom then cut through all three one after the other for definite same size. Could be done one at a time.

A guide jig for the saw would be helpful - especially if the cones were going to be cut to final length one at a time.


btw, the dealership I went to today ran his business from his home. The shelf system in his dem room was four substantial pieces of ply as shelves, suspended one below the other on pretty thin stainless steel and the top one fixed to two pretty substantial steel brackets on the wall. His five grand vinyl spinner was sitting on the top shelf on a standard home made sand box...

 

[zanash]

I have in the past mentioned jigs .....

as with me dave is on a tight budget so I'd expect new gear would be a luxury thats just out of reach....

dave used a sandbox in the same way I did ....under the whole of the stand .....I found this effective greatly cutting down vibration from floor to rack [20% but mainly higher freqs].

I had some good results suspending shelves but it looked very bad on the flexy [which dave now has]..also floating one shelf off another with sorbthane puck worked well ....