I bought the Moon... and all I got was an Eclipse.

seems like a lot of talk on 47 labs being non-plush.

Surely better than hiding the fact that something isnt very good behind a big brushed metal fascia and a shiny big knob (Im not naming brands there, just design briefs)

''Perceived value'' being the words Im looking for.

My question for Berillium Dust - If you found an amplifier with a perfect Null test...bought it...took it home...and thought it sounded crap, would you take it back to the shop?

If the answer is yes, then you've answered why the objective 'Null Test' isnt perhaps the best way to pick a product which is designed to give you an enjoyable sound.

If the answer is no, then yourself and the oscilloscope will remain happy for many years :D :D
 
bottleneck said:
My question for Berillium Dust - If you found an amplifier with a perfect Null test...bought it...took it home...and thought it sounded crap, would you take it back to the shop?

If the answer is yes, then you've answered why the objective 'Null Test' isnt perhaps the best way to pick a product which is designed to give you an enjoyable sound.

If the answer is no, then yourself and the oscilloscope will remain happy for many years :D :D
Click to expand...

Bottleneck,

When you speak or sing to a microphone which is connected to an amplifier which is, in turn, connected to a speaker, all you want is that your voice be as faithful reproduced as possible but only louder. If the output (louder voice through speaker) is equal to the input (your voice) then the only way of not liking what you hear is not liking your voice.

Do you like your voice?

If the answer is yes, then yourself and the guitar will remain happy for many years.

If the answer is no, then you've subjectively answered why you singing isnt perhaps the best way to pick a product which is designed to give you an enjoyable sound.
 
BerylliumDust said:
When you speak or sing to a microphone which is connected to an amplifier which is, in turn, connected to a speaker, all you want is that your voice be as faithful reproduced as possible but only louder. If the output (louder voice through speaker) is equal to the input (your voice) .
Click to expand...

BD,

doesn't happen mate :rolleyes:

No system exists that fits your ideals. That is a fact. All you can do is choose your preferred flavouring as we have ours.

Your quest is not a new one, it's as old as the industry and many have trodden the same path, only to realise how futile it all is.

Still, have fun trying, and do let us know when you can perfectly reproduce that voice won't you?
 
.. and what's the use of a perfect amplifier when the other components are not perfect?
.. and what's the use of the perfect system when then the room acoustics spoils everything anyway. :rolleyes:
 
"No system exists that fits your ideals. That is a fact. All you can do is choose your preferred flavouring as we have ours."

But please do me a favour, DON'T YOU EVER CALL IT Hi Fidelity!

True fidelity means output equal to the input. There is one amplifier which I know of that can virtually do it when driving real speakers...

"That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind"!
 
BerylliumDust said:
But please do me a favour, DON'T YOU EVER CALL IT Hi Fidelity!
Click to expand...

Not wishing to be too pedantic, distortion is the very reason we do call it high fidelity. Surely it would be referred to as absolute fidelity otherwise?

Absolute fidelity does not exist, nor does anything even come close IME. As Titian says, the amplifier is a very small part of the jigsaw and with respect, even the worst measuring amps will offer lower distortion than the typical loudspeaker will generate in the low bass. Then there's the room to screw up all your hard work.

I enjoy listening to music on vinyl through valves. This pretty much guarantees distortion forms part of my listening. Does it mean my system sounds less enjoyable? No, quite the opposite in fact. And as a former owner of the Sim Eclipse, I can say that IMO, it is capable of less realistic results than a mid price turntable with all it's attendent distortion. Leads me to beleive that resolution is compromised in today's digital replay, making absolute fidelity an impossible dream.
 
BerylliumDust said:
Merlin,

There was a time when some men thinked that earth was flat... and some still do.
Click to expand...


Yeah but they are religious zealots who worship at the feet of St Julian, St ivor, and the Archangel John the welsh. They have beards and dink home brewed ale.

They are almost extinct now, and will be as no one is making briks anymore.
 
I'm sorry BD, I must be missing the point here.

Are you telling us that Tube Dude's amplifier is the best out there because it does a good null test? If so, can you tell us more about the design? Is it Class A, Class D, PWM, PDM? Is it commercially available?

From my point of view, the greatest contributors of distortion are firstly the room, secondly your loudspeakers, and finally the analogue preamp. For true fidelity we need to address those issues IMO, then work on a signal that has sufficient resolution (so junk those CD's!).

I admire those seeking true fidelity, but consider myself experienced enough to appreciate that it is unattainable without a better source and a quantum leap in loudspeaker technology.
 
Speaking of which Mike, how's the horns coming :D :D

NB

Since you put room first, would you theorise that larger rooms by their nature provide lower distortions than small rooms? Just curious what your experience has shown on that point.


NNB

Ian, if you're reading who's the fella on your new avatar that looks like Ruud Hullit (or however you spell it)

Chris
 
merlin said:
I admire those seeking true fidelity, but consider myself experienced enough to appreciate that it is unattainable without a better source and a quantum leap in loudspeaker technology.
Click to expand...

Now we are getting somewhere... you are assuming you already have a perfect amplifier and by doing so now you may concetrate yourself only in getting a better source and speakers.

What a better tool to have than a perfect amplifier to attain that?

As for Tube Dude's amplifier details I'll leave it to him... if he wants to.
 
bottleneck said:
Since you put room first, would you theorise that larger rooms by their nature provide lower distortions than small rooms? Just curious what your experience has shown on that point.
Click to expand...
Chris,
I'm not Merlin but what I know from other people and my own little experience is that not necessaraly larger rooms have less distortion then smaller. In fact the chance that a 20m x 10 m room creates more distortion is higher than smaller rooms (7 m x 5 m). The reflection time is higher in larger rooms and can easily be higher than the critical time of 30-50 ms for example.
 
BerylliumDust said:
Now we are getting somewhere... you are assuming you already have a perfect amplifier and by doing so now you may concetrate yourself only in getting a better source and speakers.
Click to expand...
I believe you need to take lessons on understanding what people wright, without interpretating every sentence in your own way.
I'm afraid it is really a question of IQ, though.
 
titian said:
Chris,
I'm not Merlin but what I know from other people and my own little experience is that not necessaraly larger rooms have less distortion then smaller. In fact the chance that a 20m x 10 m room creates more distortion is higher than smaller rooms (7 m x 5 m). The reflection time is higher in larger rooms and can easily be higher than the critical time of 30-50 ms for example.
Click to expand...

Titian,

Now you are using maths to prove your point?... Be careful though, you may end up finding it is really a question of IQ.
 
Am I using maths to prove something? Where?
When you go in a shop and see something costs £10 are you using maths?

Well then it must be a question of IQ! :D
 

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