Mana Audio update
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The Devil
IHTFP
If you look at the Mana Forum there are always loads of set-up questions. The "corner-lift" and "centre-lift" methods are not mentioned anywhere in the instructions.
penance
Arrogant Cock
So let me get this right, you keep asking if anyone has had experience of Mana, someone says yes, you poopoo it because they didnt spend a year learning how to set it up.
How do you manage to survive with your head that far in the sand?
How do you manage to survive with your head that far in the sand?
michaelab
desafinado
Well actually, there are plenty of people that do. In many cases they'd also be right allthough I wouldn't go as far as saying that all amps sound the same.Bradders said:
When applied to CDPs, amps and preamps then that is often the case.
No. However, the most important difference between the two and the one that makes 95% of the sound difference is the speakers.
Michael.
The Devil
IHTFP
Answer this honestly: Do you know what I mean by the corner-lift method?penance said:
kennyk
thecrossovernetwork.com
I see a number of similarities between Mana believers and Scientology.
The Devil
IHTFP
Deary me. And you are the hi-fi expert?michaelab said:
This is why this forum is a complete waste of cyberspace.
penance
Arrogant Cock
The Devil said:
I read about it on the Mana forum, cant remember now as i dont have Mana and dont need to know it.
Answer this honestly, do you really think that? If so why do you come here?
michaelab
desafinado
Why do you participate in this waste then?
Corner-lift my @rse - is there anything more ridiculous? Is it any wonder the company is failing if you need a year's apprenticeship in the art of Mana before you can properly execute the corner-lift and centre-lift method? Without which it won't work of course
.michaelab said:Why do you participate in this waste then?
Corner-lift my @rse - is there anything more ridiculous? Is it any wonder the company is failing if you need a year's apprenticeship in the art of Mana before you can properly execute the corner-lift and centre-lift method? Without which it won't work of course
The difficulty to setup, maintain, and especially to keep clean, are the biggest Mana drawbacks. I can appreciate your skepticism.
Bub,
You should not take peoples opinions so seriously. There is no such thing as the "Right Sound". One thing to understand, is that everyone hears differently. You could set up two systems in your house, one to sound amazingly good, and one to sound (in your opinion) terrible. You would be suprised to find that a lot of people might prefer the one you don't like.
I have seen things that I like get bad reviews, and things that I think as crap get raved about. I buy what I like, and listen to what I like. What others do is up to them.
Dave
sideshowbob
Trisha
If Mana the company is failing, I'm sure it's mostly down to the fact that there simply isn't much of a market for expensive equipment stands. Once you've sold and resold the product a few times to your niche market, there's very little room for many more sales. I suspect JW is/was as aware of that as anyone, hence the attempted diversification into amp production, etc. FWIW I have absolutely no interest in equipment supports and don't think they make any difference under anything other than speakers or turntables, so I was never likely to be a customer.
If Mana are trading whilst insolvent I have precisely zero sympathy for them. I know how hard it is to run a business, and I also know, from the experience of friends, how stressful it is to go out of business, but certain things are beyond the pale, and one of them is taking money from people if you can't supply them with the product. So, I hope that isn't the case.
-- Ian
If Mana are trading whilst insolvent I have precisely zero sympathy for them. I know how hard it is to run a business, and I also know, from the experience of friends, how stressful it is to go out of business, but certain things are beyond the pale, and one of them is taking money from people if you can't supply them with the product. So, I hope that isn't the case.
-- Ian
Trading whilst insolvent
There are certain conditions that allow you to trade whilst technically insolvent (eg you have proof you can trade out of it, this will require a very firm order book or directors loans etc). Providing other creditors are paid in advance of the directors then this is generally acceptable.
However as with all limited companies no-one other than the directors and shareholders knows what goes on between one set of accounts and the next, it is possible that directors (or others) can provide funds into the business.
There is a lot of conjecture going on within this thread (plus the usual forum backstabbing remarks). Whilst I accept that some customers out there may have paid for products and not received them, there are procedures within law that they can take in an attempt to recover their funds or obtain the goods.
This thread has been very damaging, not only to Mana but to two channel audio in general and to ZeroGain. If I was in this business I wouldn't want most of you as my customers knowing that my product would get slated at every opportunity. Equally if I was new to ZeroGain I would like to know that other forum members are capable of decent discussion.
I think the moderators have an active role to play here but no-one seems to be firm enough to put an end to this thread.
Mr Perceptive
with possibly my last post on ZeroGain
There are certain conditions that allow you to trade whilst technically insolvent (eg you have proof you can trade out of it, this will require a very firm order book or directors loans etc). Providing other creditors are paid in advance of the directors then this is generally acceptable.
However as with all limited companies no-one other than the directors and shareholders knows what goes on between one set of accounts and the next, it is possible that directors (or others) can provide funds into the business.
There is a lot of conjecture going on within this thread (plus the usual forum backstabbing remarks). Whilst I accept that some customers out there may have paid for products and not received them, there are procedures within law that they can take in an attempt to recover their funds or obtain the goods.
This thread has been very damaging, not only to Mana but to two channel audio in general and to ZeroGain. If I was in this business I wouldn't want most of you as my customers knowing that my product would get slated at every opportunity. Equally if I was new to ZeroGain I would like to know that other forum members are capable of decent discussion.
I think the moderators have an active role to play here but no-one seems to be firm enough to put an end to this thread.
Mr Perceptive
with possibly my last post on ZeroGain
The Devil
IHTFP
Yes. You posting as if you know anything at all about Mana stands when you've never laid eyes on them. That, amigo, is ridiculous.michaelab said:
You are far from being alone, here, however, which is why ZG is currently a waste of space.
sideshowbob
Trisha
Mr Perceptive said:
Not in retail. In retail, the law is quite clear that if you are unable to fulfill orders in a reasonable period of time you shouldn't be taking them. What constitutes "reasonable" is a matter of legal judgement, however.
-- Ian
lordsummit
moderate mod
Mr Perceptive, I don't think companies that trade in an honest manner have anything to fear, and I also don't think that exposing poor customer service (and that's the best spin I can put on it) is a problem either. At the end of the day we're a consumer society, and the consumer is entitled to the product they've paid for on an agreed date. That is a fundamental tenet of consumer law.
As I have said several times efforts have been made to contact JW so that a reasonable explanation can be given. In the absence of a response one can only presume the worst.
As I have said before if someone takes your money knowing full well they cannot provide what they have paid for that is fraud. I hope JW can sort it out as he manufacture(s/d) a product many people hold a great deal of faith in, but he needs to behave honestly.
Tell me do you get so indignant when Watchdog exposes companies taking money of people for goods they don't supply?
On Zerogain we don't moderate very much, we don't generally need to. As I have said before I hate it when I feel I need to deal with something. After all we're all adults. In this case I sought proof and found it. The thread has been allowed to run as the rumours aren't unsubstantiated, there is definite evidence that something is very wrong, and I would find it unconsciable to think that other people may lose significant amounts of money. Please remember that some people are thousands down.
Regards
Richard
As I have said several times efforts have been made to contact JW so that a reasonable explanation can be given. In the absence of a response one can only presume the worst.
As I have said before if someone takes your money knowing full well they cannot provide what they have paid for that is fraud. I hope JW can sort it out as he manufacture(s/d) a product many people hold a great deal of faith in, but he needs to behave honestly.
Tell me do you get so indignant when Watchdog exposes companies taking money of people for goods they don't supply?
On Zerogain we don't moderate very much, we don't generally need to. As I have said before I hate it when I feel I need to deal with something. After all we're all adults. In this case I sought proof and found it. The thread has been allowed to run as the rumours aren't unsubstantiated, there is definite evidence that something is very wrong, and I would find it unconsciable to think that other people may lose significant amounts of money. Please remember that some people are thousands down.
Regards
Richard
Lord Summit (Richard)
Firstly I've never seen an episode of Watchdog and whilst I accept that it is good to warn people of possible supply problems on behalf of a company. I also accept that the owner of Mana has not been contactable.
However the company may not be insolvent, that is definitley conjecture at this stage and certainly comments like this are not in Mana's best interest. As I said before there are legal procedures to go down in an attempt to get sensible recompense.
I have owned several businesses over the last 12 years, and dealt with my fair share of difficult companies. However I have had no involvement with direct retail to individuals. From my experience when a company does get into difficulty (having traded with many) the owners of that company often are under great stress and can become quite irrational.
Unfortunately when a company does go under the small creditors are left carrying the can (thats just a fact of life, The VATman, TAXman, secured creditors, redundancy payments, etc all come ahead of the creditor) Over the years I have 'lost' more than my fair share of money in this respect. I always look on it as its not the first time I've been ripped off and its probably not going to the last. Despite painful efforts to credit check customers businesses can still go very badly wrong.
And as for "We Are All Adults", I'm afraid this forum (like others) certainly attracts its fair share of juvenile ones!!
Mr Perceptive
Firstly I've never seen an episode of Watchdog and whilst I accept that it is good to warn people of possible supply problems on behalf of a company. I also accept that the owner of Mana has not been contactable.
However the company may not be insolvent, that is definitley conjecture at this stage and certainly comments like this are not in Mana's best interest. As I said before there are legal procedures to go down in an attempt to get sensible recompense.
I have owned several businesses over the last 12 years, and dealt with my fair share of difficult companies. However I have had no involvement with direct retail to individuals. From my experience when a company does get into difficulty (having traded with many) the owners of that company often are under great stress and can become quite irrational.
Unfortunately when a company does go under the small creditors are left carrying the can (thats just a fact of life, The VATman, TAXman, secured creditors, redundancy payments, etc all come ahead of the creditor) Over the years I have 'lost' more than my fair share of money in this respect. I always look on it as its not the first time I've been ripped off and its probably not going to the last. Despite painful efforts to credit check customers businesses can still go very badly wrong.
And as for "We Are All Adults", I'm afraid this forum (like others) certainly attracts its fair share of juvenile ones!!
Mr Perceptive
need to hedge my bets here:
I have a (simple) 4 tier amp stand from Mana, bought s/h and thought good value. While I'm not sure I've performed all the right tweaks/set-up, it does the job. It is certainly rigid, and being compact, it can tuck away neatly. But its only a stand.
As it happens, I'm buying in some s/h Hutter stuff, as the Bel Canto Evo4 is really too big for Mana and I need more shelves and the Hutter is cherry red like the speakers and all. So I'll shortly have a s/h Mana stand to sell - am offering Dunkyboy first refusal since he's into ATC and that suggests that he needs the studio set.
I have a (simple) 4 tier amp stand from Mana, bought s/h and thought good value. While I'm not sure I've performed all the right tweaks/set-up, it does the job. It is certainly rigid, and being compact, it can tuck away neatly. But its only a stand.
As it happens, I'm buying in some s/h Hutter stuff, as the Bel Canto Evo4 is really too big for Mana and I need more shelves and the Hutter is cherry red like the speakers and all. So I'll shortly have a s/h Mana stand to sell - am offering Dunkyboy first refusal since he's into ATC and that suggests that he needs the studio set.
Hello Ditton,
If Dunkyboy doesn't take you up on your offer, then could i be so cheeky as to ask if you would consider selling it to me ( if the price is right). I probably won't be in the market for any Hi-Fi gear until just after christmas now ( 3 kids, etc, etc...) but would appreciate it if i could be consider as a possible buyer, if you don't ask you don't get is my motto. I live near to St Andrews on the east coast and could collect if within a reasonable distance.
Thanks for your time.
Regards
S&C
If Dunkyboy doesn't take you up on your offer, then could i be so cheeky as to ask if you would consider selling it to me ( if the price is right). I probably won't be in the market for any Hi-Fi gear until just after christmas now ( 3 kids, etc, etc...) but would appreciate it if i could be consider as a possible buyer, if you don't ask you don't get is my motto. I live near to St Andrews on the east coast and could collect if within a reasonable distance.
Thanks for your time.
Regards
S&C
What makes you think that anyone/JW should reply to your unsolicited emails or be forced to post here, especialy when they are not even a member? You presume too much. You/this forum are not exactly very important.lordsummit said:
Agreed, but nobody has done that have they?lordsummit said:
What proof? Company accounts from 2003lordsummit said:
That is concerning for the person involved although shit happens, especially when companies go bust!lordsummit said:
Listen, if Mana as a company are going down the pan that is sad news, and bad news for the industry. To fabricate all this rubbish about fraudulent activity (as you have done) is even worse for the industry and the Zero-to-be-gained forum......
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