Musing following some cable posts...

Arrowhead said:
Bet you haven't made many today.

Graham.
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Made some before most of you even surfaced out of bed. At the moment I am evaluating a new cable someone has sent me to play with as I do wear more than one hat for a living. Later on I wil be doing the same for a pair of speakers and a CD player coming onto the market soon.

Oooops sorry, shouldn't have said that, there is NO difference between cables is there? :)
 
Newton, Mass. ââ'¬â€œ April 13, 2007 -- Pear Cable Corporation, a developer of high-fidelity audio cable products, announces the completion and immediate availability of the long awaited ANJOU speaker cable. With a goal of being the world's best home audio speaker cable, the ANJOU strives for greatness.

Taking more than 1 year to design and develop, and requiring a full 4 months of machine time just to produce the first run of wire, the ANJOU speaker cable pushes the limits of modern cable design and manufacturing. The cable poses a direct challenge to rivals in the world of ââ'¬Å"no-holds barredââ'¬Â Hi-Fi cables by pursuing the most accurate sound quality possible.

So what exactly are you getting for your dollar? Pear Cable President, Annica Kjellberg had this to say, ââ'¬Å"First and foremost, you are getting real science and engineering with this product, not voodoo. We use the finest materials, a completely unique hybrid geometry developed just for the ANJOU speaker cable, and the best modern cable construction techniques available. The result is a cable that not only offers measurable sonic improvements, but more importantly a cable that sounds phenomenal.ââ'¬Â

The clear jacket of the 1ââ'¬Â thick ANJOU speaker cable reveals a tantalizing peek at the first layer of the complex inner cable geometry. Completely manufactured by machine in the United States for the highest quality and precision, the non-repeatability and inaccuracy of hand made cable construction techniques are avoided. A solid 5-hour termination process that is done by hand for each pair of cables, allows human eyes to verify quality.

The electrical properties enabled by the new hybrid geometry of the ANJOU speaker cable push the limits of hi-fi cable design. Reduced electrical reactance allows the audio signal to reach the speakers with less alteration than conventional speaker cable designs permit. A more accurate signal brings listeners closer to the ever-elusive goal of stereo systems being indistinguishable from live performances.

For more detailed information on the ANJOU speaker cable, please visit:
http://www.pearcable.com/sub_products_anjou_sc.htm
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The cable you have been asking for... ;)
 
Effem said:
Yep that would be helpful
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90 seconds looking back through the thread garners these, there are probably more:


there are some cable manufacturers that publish objective measurements for all their products, there are some cable manufacturers that have conducted double blind ABX tests.

The overwhelming majority of cables have only subtle differences between them, mainly in presentation. The ones that do have far more than just subtle differences have some lofty price tags attached that few would even consider as "value for money" but they are out there.

New alloys are being formulated now that move well away from the sameyness sounds of just copper or just silver wrapped in familiar dielectrics, still not though up in the "night and day" category for the most part I will openly concede but progress nonetheless.

cables do have differences in sound and the evidence is already there if you care to look.

I have said how many times now that the electronic test methods that would be used are in my opinion not sufficient to identify and isolate what is the quantative/qualitative reasons for the phenomema reported by those that hear differences.
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You have provided no substantiation for any of these claims.

Does that then give you the right to denigrate everything by inference?
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It's nothing to do with "rights". I'm merely asking you to substantiate your claims. You're backsliding and smoke-screening yet again, you are completely unable to answer a straight question.

But this is only a friendly discussion with differering viewpoints, not a life and death struggle and only a bloomin' stereo were all talking about after all.
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Look at your own posts, full at invective directed to people who are doing no more than asking you simple, direct questions, and not one of which you have answered.

Have you had any luck finding the scientific evidence to prove that placebo and expectation are entirely responsible for differences in cables yet, more specifically though how many repeat cycles of placebo and expectation events have been objectively recorded so that you can cite them as the sole cause of subjects hearing differences in cables?
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This is drivel. You invent a phenomena and then want me to find a proof it doesn't exist? You're the one making claims completely unknown to physics. You're the one on whom the burden of proof rests. When someone claims they have been abducted by aliens, I don't think it's reasonable to ask those who doubt that claim to come up with proof that UFOs don't exist.

Now, in post 163 you said you would search for an answer to this question:

Effem said:
there are some cable manufacturers that publish objective measurements for all their products, there are some cable manufacturers that have conducted double blind ABX tests.
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Show me one example of one cable company publishing independently verifiable test results.
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So, please, don't let me interrupt your search for this, I'm keen to read what you come up with.

-- Ian
 
"Oooops sorry, shouldn't have said that, there is NO difference between cables is there?"

Harmony restored - I was beginning to wonder if cables make such a big difference why is there no market in fancy silver tracked pcb's or internal wiring of equipment ......
 
sideshowbob said:
This is drivel. You invent a phenomena and then want me to find a proof it doesn't exist? You're the one making claims completely unknown to physics. You're the one on whom the burden of proof rests. When someone claims they have been abducted by aliens, I don't think it's reasonable to ask those who doubt that claim to come up with proof that UFOs don't exist.

-- Ian
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What?????? I didn't invent the phenomena at all, but if there isn't a phenomena in the first place then why do you label it as placebo and expectation??? Flawed logic again :(

Your trouble Ian is you try very hard to be clever and do the exact opposite, that's not including the false assumptions you make
 
Effem said:
What?????? I didn't invent the phenomena at all, but if there isn't a phenomena in the first place then why do you label it as placebo and expectation??? Flawed logic again :(

Your trouble Ian is you try very hard to be clever and do the exact opposite, that's not including the false assumptions you make
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Try looking at Spaces Speak, Are You Listening?: Experiencing Aural Architecture.
by Barry Blesser (Author), Linda-Ruth Salter (Author)


In fact blesser has written much for the Scientific community of the Science and understanding of Human hearing.
 
Effem said:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html
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LOL. Did you read the results before you posted this? This is what the page concludes:

The complete Excel spreadsheet with all test results and participant comments can be accessed herein. After the test, Manny spent quite some time analyzing the results and responses to a post-session questionnaire he composed. I owe much of the following analysis to him.

The total number of correct answers was 73 out of 149, which amounts to 49% accuracy. That is no more accurate than flipping a coin, and therefore, no statistically significant detection of power cable differences.

Test participants were asked to rate themselves as to how much of an audiophile they considered themselves to be. The scale was 1 to 5 where 1 = "I'm not an audiophile at all" and 5 = "I'm a hardcore tweak." ("Tweak" is the word Manny chose; I would not have used such terminology, which I find belittling in this context). The self-proclaimed hardcore audiophiles got 48% correct; the rest got 50% correct. Again, no significant differences based on whether or not a listener felt he was an audiophile or not.

Those above the median age of 50 scored 43% as a group; those 50 and younger scored 53% as a group. Those who frequently attend concerts of un-amplified music scored 44%, those who don't scored 50%. Those who play a musical instrument scored 47%, those who don't 50%. The 9 out of 15 participants who have invested in after-market power cords scored 48%.

Twelve of the 15 participants gave themselves a 3 or better on the 1 to 5 scale of degree of audiophile dedication. Half of the listeners gave themselves a 3 or better regarding their belief that they could hear difference between power cords. Those who rated themselves above the median for their perceived ability to discern differences between power cords scored 49%, the same as those who rated themselves below the median.

Those who on the post-test survey felt most strongly that they had heard differences between cords during the test did not perform better than those who rated their abilities at or below the median. Those who thought they did best scored 45%, while those who thought they did so-so or poorly scored 50%.

The participant who scored best in the first group of 9 was a BAAS member who complained afterwards that it took him half the test to just become comfortable with the music and the sound. He rarely listens to classical music, and found the four selections off-putting. He also expressed a desire for more funk and rock-and-roll. Yet he scored the best of the lot in his test group, with 6 out of 10 correct responses.

The participant who scored best in the second group of 6 is a BAAS member who participated in Hone Your Listening Skills. He got 7 out of 10 right. According to Manny, even 7 out of 10 is not high enough to be statistically significant.
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Try again.

-- Ian
 
I'm getting really weary of this petty war of attrition, getting nowhere and making no progress at all. And BEFORE some clown accuses me yet again of avoiding anything, it's a certain person that plays with semantics and loves squabbling to defend his own delicate ego that's using up my valuable time and killing all progress, not me. Think what you damn well like, I don't care
 
sideshowbob said:
LOL. Did you read the results before you posted this? This is what the page concludes:

-- Ian
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I knew EXACTLY what it said. There you go again, making endless false assumptions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's exactly my point, that you are so riddled with bias and prejudice it's impossible to have a sensible debate with you
 
Effem said:
What?????? I didn't invent the phenomena at all, but if there isn't a phenomena in the first place then why do you label it as placebo and expectation??? Flawed logic again :(
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Wow, your comprehension really is very poor. In the absence of any substantiation, the phenomena (perceived differences between electrically identical cables) is most commonsensically presumed a placebo/expectancy effect, rather than something in need of dis-proof. Clear enough for you? In other words, give the cable sceptics (who are, after all, in the mainstream as far as scientific knowledge goes) something substantiated to disprove, rather than postulating an effect and then demanding they provide evidence to show that it's not entirely in your head. This is ABC stuff.

-- Ian
 
Effem said:
I knew EXACTLY what it said. There you go again, making endless false assumptions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well, thanks for posting something in support of my case, but I think you might be better off posting something in support of your own.

-- Ian
 
Shiner said:
Could tell me why you posted this link please?. It most certainly doesnt support your point of view and if anything contradicts it.
Thanks
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Quite the contrary, the answers are in there if you look. If you can't see the point then I'm not going to explain it again because I truly am wasting my time posting any further.
 

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