new scientist

ben556473 said:
I am currently trying to contact Kimber Cable by email, there is a server problem. They say on their website that they measure directionality and label their cables for this. I shall ask them if they will let us know what they measure and how they determine directionality. If I can get in touch, I shall refer to this forum and post.
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I had thought of doing the same .... please do post their response if you get one. I'll be interested to see what they say.
 
some interesting concepts explored here - Cables knowing things and whether we should trust out brains etc or Do I need a psychologist to help me choose an interconnect?

For what it's worth I dont accept that cables have memories or have achieved a level of conciousness - for instance my cables dont mind what kind of music I play and I havent talked to them for ages. I am sure that real differences probably do exist between cables ability to accurately carry a complex AC signal and that losses probably occur in all cables of aspects of the AC current that they are carrying. This results in a small but (by some peoples listening anecdotes) appreciable change in the sound produced by the transducers. As I age I am told that my ears are not as great as they used to be so the next real break through in hifi will probably be an implant and shee hifi perfection - I just hope the musicians can lift their game too!
 
ben556473 said:
I am currently trying to contact Kimber Cable by email, there is a server problem. They say on their website that they measure directionality and label their cables for this. I shall ask them if they will let us know what they measure and how they determine directionality. If I can get in touch, I shall refer to this forum and post.
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Good stuff.

I should say I've emailed RA and Kimber in the past to ask for insertion loss figures for the Kimber weave mains cable. A reasonable question to ask as the explicit claim is proven to dramatically reduce mains noise. No reply.
 
owl37400 said:
I think I have found the source of the measurements, so we can all relax, and be happy in the knowledge that there is no cover-up and it's all based on good science after all.

Russ Andrews' website provides some useful information ...

http://www.russandrews.com/article-Truth-or-Myth-Cable-Directionality-russdirectionality.htm

Here is an outline of the experiment and measurements conducted:

"I tested the effect on my wife (a blind test, not telling her what I was changing) and asked her to describe the change in sound. She described exactly what I had heard, so I knew I wasn't imagining it, even though my electronic 'education' said it couldn't happen."

So I think that closes the debate once and for all.

And just in case you are having problems directionalising your cables at home, follow this procedure:

"Don't do too many repeats if you aren't sure because it just becomes too confusing, try a different piece of music instead."

Yes, remember, it is always a bad idea to repeat your experiments, because you might end up with a different result, which would place the original result in doubt. And that would just be confusing.

I'm off to stick some arrows on some wires.
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:D
 
paul: i can't possibly begin to explain 'how' it changes the sound.

i couldn't point out any numerical value or changes in waveform shape, cos i can't discern that by ear, though apparently you can merely from the specs. but i can hear it's changed.


it you'd ask me 'why' it changes the sound then i'd tell you its all to do with storing and relelasing electrons. after all thats how dielectric constant values are arrived at.

there's no need to get upset and start using potty mouth, just because i haven't quoted my ultimate knowledge base or all scientific truth, Wikipedia..



i'll state my case for you, once more with feeling.

i don't beleive that symetrically designed cables are directional, and i don't believe that 'we' can hear that they are, becuase they aren't. i also don't believe there is any valid scientific knowledge base to prove they are.


I am however eternally greatful for you stating that you are just pointing out the inconsistencies in my statements, if you could just get on and point them out insterad of alluding to them by saying thats what you are doing then i'm sure it would be all a lot clearer...

if you've got confused half way through, there's no shame in admitting it, we'll understand, if you are a little bit slowing 'reading words' there's no shame in admitting your stupidity..


but please little boy refrain from potty mouth....
 
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To be fair, I don't think the guy was patently saying a cable has thoughts because of that light experiment, he was simply replying to a post asking if cables could be aware.

Thing is even if they could be aware this would surely further disprove cable directionality, as either way you plug it in the cable would be 'aware' and react accordingly.
 
it you'd ask me 'why' it changes the sound then i'd tell you its all to do with storing and relelasing electrons. after all thats how dielectric constant values are arrived at.
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I think you're confused about the dielectric properties of materials. More pertinently you haven't physically connected 'storing and releasing electrons' to 'changes the sound' and why this is audible but not measureable (in terms of the signal, not the materials properties).
i don't beleive that symetrically designed cables are directional, and i don't believe that 'we' can hear that they are, becuase they aren't. i also don't believe there is any valid scientific knowledge base to prove they are.
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The same statement applies to your hypotheses about being able to hear the materials of the cable, given they don't alter the LCR properties of the cable significantly.

So why do you disparage the group of people who believe they can hear something you can't? And get all upset about challenges to your belief system? We have the root causes of most of the world's problems here in a microcosm.

Paul
 
Thing is even if they could be aware this would surely further disprove cable directionality, as either way you plug it in the cable would be 'aware' and react accordingly.
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This could explain everything. Cables that want to please, and in comparative tests know their place.

Paul
 
We could call it the 'Butler.' And charge a stupid amount of money for it to mug punters.
 
Hello, I have given up trying to contact Kimber Kable directly as I have been unable to submit my question to their 'sales' department. (gives 'server error' message every time). However I have asked Russ Andrews to comment so hopefully come Monday we shall have something more tangible to discuss.
 
Paul Ranson said:
So why do you disparage the group of people who believe they can hear something you can't? And get all upset about challenges to your belief system? We have the root causes of most of the world's problems here in a microcosm.

Paul
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Paul far from being upset as you claim, as i stated earlier i'm more than happy a minority of people, namely RA and the representatives of Kimber cable co, who's products he distributes in the UK, to beleive in something no one else can hear and no one else can prove, and then claim that there is eveidence to back it up without being able to provide the reference.

We've been putting up with Christians for milenia so why should i treat kimber co and their flock of two, RA and wife, any differently, after all in terms of holding beleifs for something for which there is no scientific fact, they could be the same group.




Ahhh now i get it, you're a god botherer, it all makes sense, why didnt you say so earlier then i could have ignored you from the start.
 
No one can prove anything AT ALL about cable sound once you get outside LCR and its effects on frequency response.

FWIW I think the directionality heresy is much more widespread than you seem to think.

Paul
 
Maybe you could point me to it, i don't see anyone other than snake oil merchnats purporting the theory, and only RA in the UK.

of course i may have missed it in my back catalogue, of TAS, Stereophile, HIFI+, HFWORLD, WHATHF, and all the other forums that i read but don't post on.

if it only exists in cable marketing from the big brands then i certainly will have missed it.

though i did notice Barry Fox saw fit to snipe at RA on pg71 on the latest HFN.
 
I have just placed an order for Ben Duncans' 'Black Book Vol 1' which claims to prove cable directionality. It cost me fifteen pounds but covers other interesting topics in Hi-Fi. So I took a chance and coughed-up. Will post if there is anything revealing documented. Does anyone know of this author, apparently he has written fo magazines for years, his site is quite interesting, look on http://www.bdr-uk.dial.pipex.com/ and http://www.jenving.se/direct.htm if interested.
 
You know even if cables can be directional, why use them for Hi-Fi when non-directional ones are available?!
 
maybe because the directional ones sound better in the right direction than the none directional ones....:D
 
Interested in what BD has to say on the topic, at least he has access to Ghz testing kit...
 
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I wouldn't buy RA gear but I can definitely hear a difference with my Chord cables depending on what way I have them plugged in. Chord mark them with an arrow and I don't see what they have to gain by attempting to fool anyone.

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Paul
 

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