Hi Owl. Nice answer!
I do think it's healthy that some of the more dubious claims made by hifi retailers are challenged, however, so that prospective buyers have the opportunity of reading a bit of "cynicism" from us sceptical types as well.
Absolutely, and I agree. A little scepticism is healthy. The problem for me is when scepticism turns into cynicism. This state of mind is often the result of years of dismissing everything that fails to meet the approval of the sceptic's mindet. This I feel is an unhealthy state of affairs. It gets to the stage where the sceptic often loses out on things that are beneficial as a result of constantly being 'on the defensive'.
In my opinion, a lot of stuff is bought (and not returned to the shop) due to either 1) the placebo effect or 2) the "emperor's new clothes" effect.
Yes that undoubtedly happens, but there is also a significant amount of stuff that's bought that genuinely works. I can only comment from my own experience in that regard and also others that I know.
You go and buy some cables from xyz after reading some promotional stuff that assures you that "scientific tests" have demonstrated that they will bring such-and-such a benefit to your system. So you take them home and get everything connected up.
Maybe you notice an improvement. I would suggest this could merely be a placebo effect. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
Undoubtedly people's buying decisions are influenced by advertising material, and I also believe in the placebo effect you mention. Where I feel the danger here is, is that the "sceptics" have made their mind up that EVERYTHING is snake oil, and that it is always the case that the big bad dealers or manufacturers are out to get you. For sure that happens, it may even be the case most of the time, but thinking that you're being 'ripped off' all the time sets a dangerous precedent that can lead to people missing out on things that make genuine improvements, and that is where I think the hi-fi enthusiast can potentially be the loser.
Certainly there's a good argument to say that even if it is - so what? If the listener experiences an improvement, that's great. It doesn't necessarily matter how or why.
My sentiments precisely. I think in hi-fi there's sometimes too much emphasis placed on WHY something does a particular thing. At the end of the day if your ears tell you there is an improvement and this leads to greater enjoyment of you system and your music, then why should you give a toss?
But if at some point during this process you read something challenging those retailer's claims, then maybe you can stop worrying about why you can't hear the difference that "everyone else" can, take the cables back to the shop, ask for your money back and spend it on buying some music instead.
In circumstances like that presenting a sceptical/scientific approach to others works and is beneficial.
I've got no big argument with someone who says "try these cables - me and my mates reckon they sound great" (although I might disagree with them).
It's the "buy these cables - exhaustive testing in our quantum probability laboratory has demonstrated superior elctron crystal grain energies" type stuff that irritates me because essentially, it's trying to part people with their cash on false pretences.
Totally agree. And it's that sort of stuff that gives the genuine manufacturers and hi-fi dealers a bad name, and it is also what tends to breed chaps like your good self
It's the hi-jacking of science (via sciencey-sounding phrases and unsupported claims) that really has to be challenged. If no-one does this, then proper science becomes diluted and loses its value.
Again, totally agree. That totally devalues real science, which has a place in hi-fi, just maybe not as all-important a place as some people like to think. My view is that as an entity hi-fi and listening to music is subjective and therefore ultimately all that matters is what an individual hears, not what science 'proves'.
The phrase "open mind" has been mentioned a few times during this discussion ... I would suggest that an open mind is all about not rejecting ideas without considering them first.
Exactly correct. Too many people poo-poo things without having any relevant direct exprience of the item they are poo-pooing! And often because according to science something or other is not 'possible', therefore they dismiss it out of hand without even trying it. This to me is a perfect example of a 'closed mind'.
Incidentally, it's interesting to note that there does, in the end, seem to be a rational explanation as to why those chord cables may sound different one way round ... it's to do with what the shield is connected to rather than the "direction" of the conductors.
If that's the case then it's fine with me. I know that I can both hear a difference when the cables are connected the 'right' way round, and that there was a difference (distinct improvement) over the cheapo patch leads I used before I got the Chords, and that's all that matters to me.
-------------------------------------
Paul
