[Review] CD lathe update

Shiner ......

I'd have thought that with just 20 posts under your belt, you would perhaps have shown a little humility.....but then that says more about you than your actual posts.

I don't willingly spend my hard urned cash on things that don't work. I've thoughly investigated ...using contol discs, other people ears and systems. In one instance not even telling them what I 'd done ...just getting them to listen to the two identical recordings , with one disc lathed the other not. The treated disc was picked out within 30 seconds.

I suggest you take up wm's generous offer ....though I doubt that you will . Seems to be a trait of the naysayer that any offers of "enlightenment " are soundly rejected.."as I know it can't possibly work" ....that was the phrase that mosfet I think used last time when I offered to send him a green pen, gratis !


If I have reduced the life of the cd's, but they sound considerably better ...well thats my risk. But this should not be used as a reason to say the lathe doesn't work, as for me and other it plainly does. Its not my problem you [shiner] is unable to hear it for what ever reason. You'll be saying next that changing the power cables makes no difference !
 
Hi,
has anyone tried ripping two identical Cd's to hard drive, one lathed, one original, using something like EAC; and then burning a copy of each, to see if there's any difference in the copies?
Then, if there is a difference, and one copy is preferred, lathing that copy to see if it improves even further.

Graham.
 
I think wm alluded to something if you read between the lines ...

he's not going to use the lathe if its of no use....why waste time and energy ?

If any one wants to try this and get a cd done feel free to pm me .....
 
Arrowhead said:
Hi,
has anyone tried ripping two identical Cd's to hard drive, one lathed, one original, using something like EAC; and then burning a copy of each, to see if there's any difference in the copies?
Then, if there is a difference, and one copy is preferred, lathing that copy to see if it improves even further.

Graham.
Click to expand...


You can see where this might lead, if it were thus.
After the 100th generation lathed copy.:yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes::mana: :mana: :mana:

Graham.
 
Yes I see !

but the burning process doesn't produce coppies are as good as the original...well my machine doesn't anyway !
 
zanash said:
Yes I see !

but the burning process doesn't produce coppies are as good as the original...well my machine doesn't anyway !
Click to expand...

I think a lot depends on what blank media you use. Seems to me, the sound of different makes varies quite a bit. I think you have to find one that suits the Cpd you're using. This can be expensive, time consuming, and a pain in the arse. Personally, I don't find any copies I make now sound inferior to the original, and some even sound a bit better. Got know idea why. All I can say is I rip the original with EAC and burn the disc with DEEP BURNER at the slowest speed, 8x.:MILD:

Graham.
 
All I can say is I rip the original with EAC and burn the disc with DEEP BURNER at the slowest speed, 8x.
Click to expand...

Now, if you had an obsolete Yamaha CDRW drive, like I do, then you could burn with Audio Master Quality Recording (AMQR) as well. That really does make a difference, and even the most techie obsessed objectivist would be able to understand why!

Did I mention that my CD Lathe does everything that is claimed for it?:green:
 
Shuggie said:
Now, if you had an obsolete Yamaha CDRW drive, like I do, then you could burn with Audio Master Quality Recording (AMQR) as well. That really does make a difference, and even the most techie obsessed objectivist would be able to understand why!

Did I mention that my CD Lathe does everything that is claimed for it?:green:
Click to expand...


Careful, you may get detailed to carry out the experiment:D .
Imagine the shavings off 100 cdr's:crazy:

Graham.
 
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2nd Shuggie in regards to the Yamaha CD-RW Burner,they are superb. I'm lucky as I have 2 Units "CDW-F1E", and thanks to Zanash I will be doing a test with 3 TDK CD-R's, all using the Audio Master burning at x 1 Speed. One untreated, the two others treated,one with Black pen , the other with Green pen, should be interesting.
I will report back soon
 
I have heard. . . . . that if you want to use CDR then black CDRs are superior - haven't tried this - anyone found this to be the case?
 
Just thought I'd share my view in regards to a CD I've had done by Zanash.

Please keep in mind, that this the CD that I have had lathed, simply because I had 2 Copies of it. The CD used is a Jazz/Fusion Titled BOSTON T PARTY, which features famous musicians as Jeff Berlin BASS & Dennis Chambers DRUMS. IMO l would considered this CD as a good sounding,well produced CD.

So, let's get down to it...Was there an improvement....Yes, for myself it wasn't that treated CD had better Bass/Treble, I guess more way of putting in, that it adjusts the sound gently, eg the sound instruments become clearer, and easier to follow, for myself the biggest gain is the timing. The treated CD is so much more engaging, simply put, a much more enjoyable time was had with the treated disc. And if l dare say the word, it reminded me a bit of the feeling you get from Vinyl, by this l mean,sometimes can have a bad 1980's pressing that sounds bad, but yet can't stop tapping your feet.So imagine that, without the bad sound,I know it's a strange way to describe a feeling, but thats the best l can do.

Of course, this is just one CD, but so far, l'm impressed. I' really looking forward the the CD-R test next!

In regards to Black CD-R's, I've used them in the past "TRAXDATA", however it's the first I have heard about them giving a superior sound, I will have to purchase another pack and give them a try.
 
wadia-miester said:
Shiner, (John)

I do admire a principle adherer and some one who is prepared to stand his ground. I do too
Now I do have respect for Tones (the elder) over the years we have many a interesting discussing and I firmly believe his views, his knowledge is first rate and truthful and his staunch non belief in all things snake oily, are a pinnacle on this and many a forum.
He is a gentleman too, while I don't share all his views, we do agree to disagree. Hopeful with healthy respect.
While I may not have Tones (the elder) total chemical knowledge, My background is Mechanical and electronic engineering, aerospace, flight control and fuel systems (Bsc Eng Hons)
So In answer to your comment on this quote.

"Its audio mate, anyone in the electronics industry treats its like the shite on your shoe after you have stepped in something"

Your response

"Shows why this sort of thing and mindless automatons like you make the rest of the electronics world look on audio as a place for geeks and charlatans."

I made the above statement on WW
So, having an opinion and not being able to express it in this form tags me a "mindless automatons" does it?
Prehaps we are tired of being viewed in that way, just because someone has not composed a full office formulated bullet point reply (with corrected typo lol!) does not make them any the less capable Shiner.
The statement is valid in any form and on that day, that is the way I choose to show it.
Click to expand...

Yawn!

wadia-miester said:
Now going back to the Audiodesk lathe,
I have being using one personally for over 10 months (to great effect) if a very large selection of systems, ranging from £1500+
Now early in the thread I did post that on 2 occasions I had heard virtually no positive effect at all in £30K plus set ups.
This I am happy with, I have also heard it make very worth while improvements in systems of the same outlay too.
Click to expand...

So what? Are you some super human with cat like hearing, you appear to style yourself some great guru but that doesnt mean you have stumbled upon some new discovery in your garden shed does it?


wadia-miester said:
Why? being honest I can't give you an answer because I don't know, and those guys on here Z/G will also know If I can't explain anything 'snakey :D ' I will not dish out marketing B/S.
I will point out though, our workshop uses a spectral analyser/ small scale seismometer and full rta and modal measurement facilities, we do fully explore (to the best of our abilities) things that interest us that have a bearing on the services we provide.
I'm glad your the nuclear industry in which you work is well away from this sort of nonsense..
Click to expand...
And the relavance of your equipment to this product is what exactly?. If you want to bandy equipment, trust me, you will lose to the nuclear facility. :JPS:

wadia-miester said:
I mean we wouldn't want a Homer Simpson playing uranium marbles in the cooling ponds now would we :D .
Click to expand...

Wake me up when you have something interesting to say:o

wadia-miester said:
I would also like to offer you the opportunity for you to sample the effects of the lathe (purely as an experiment to your ears) on your own discs (which I will gladly replace F.O.C.) if you feel that in time the have deteriorated.
I would also suggest as you feel strongly on this issue, you contact the manufacturers direct with you thoughts on this matter and run the response past Tones..
Click to expand...
Why would i do that? Cant I use the very same product of my collegue who is within walking distance of my home.?
How do you know I havent tested my discs against his "lathed" discs?
The value is irrelavent, its the effectivness of the product that is in doubted. I have said I have tried it and it doesnt work. There is also the little matter of offer some explanation as how it works. The reflected light nonesense has been debunked years ago when the CD stoplight came out. If you dont accept it that is up to you and your gullable customers.


wadia-miester said:
I have stopped looking at the 'front' of the product so to speak these days, However I thoroughly check out ALL the aspects of the items we sell (again to best of our abilities) to see weather or not it does what it says on the tin. But also I do respect that these 'snakey' bits are not for every one, neither I am suggesting that people are stupid in any way, after all the bottom line is this, Its your hard earned folding, if it doesn't work you simply take it back. Tony
Click to expand...
Bully for you, Luckily the rest of the world doesnt have that luxury, you can see it now cant you?
Ooops Sorry that reactor went into meltdown, But I we stopped looking at the "front" of the product cos we couldnt quite work it out, it was too difficult.
 
Shiner/John,

Whether you believe or agree with Zanash, WM or any other poster here or not, there is no need to resort to personal insults. Please edit your posts before we (the mods) are forced to intervene.
 
larkrise said:
I have heard. . . . . that if you want to use CDR then black CDRs are superior - haven't tried this - anyone found this to be the case?
Click to expand...

"Stereo", the German magazine is quite convinced that there are differences between CD-Rs, and that black ones are on the whole better, with EM-TECH (ex-BASF tape/magnetics business and now French owned, apparently) being easily available and one of the best. I bought some last time I was in Germany. They work very well, but whether they sound any better I can't really say.

Incidentally, on another topic (Transports) there's an article in this month's "Stereo" by a writer of software for controlling CD burners. He's well known (apparently, though I've never heard of him) and writes at length about how the transport is the deciding factor, and has more influence than the software (for burning) or the DAC for listening. He also explains how IT transports read the data in a different way from audio devices. The article is an appendage to a review of computer CD/DVD burners. In the same issue there's a review of 3 DACs.
If I get chance over the next few days, I'll see if I can find time to put a translation up, or failing that, transcribe the original so that you can stick it a translator! It cleared up quite a lot for me.
 
Ok, You want me to focus on the argument.

Let us look at this product It bevels the edge of your disc at 37 degrees. Or is it 36 or 38? Who cares.:SLEEP:

Do you know where this comes from?? I will tell you.

Go and have a look at an old physics text book that has some history on lasers and you will find something called a "Brewster Window". It was used in older Helium-Neon lasers. The seal at the end of the laser was sealed with glass set at an angle of 37 degrees. This was many years ago before the days when mirrors were an integral part of the tube itself.

All of these scams, including the old green pen scam, totally ignore the fact that the entire pickup system is immune to the problems these toys are supposed to correct. The laser reading is done by coherent interference and does not depend upon reflection, I have pointed you to the relevant chapter on Pohlmanns book, but you obvioulsy have no interest in the facts.

In order for edge reflections to have any effect, the total round- trip distance traveled between the current pit being read and the edge must be an exact integral multiple of the laser wavelength and the returning spurious reflection must be significantly brighter than the direct beam illumination.
That means that the angle of incidence has to have been sufficiently shallow, not 90 degrees, like the entire system is configured, but more like 20 degrees to begin with to cause enough energy to find its way to the edge.

Learn the technology :p
 
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I wanna believe!

Although the various claims made by the manufacturer of this wonderful contraption seem to make sense atleast from a mechanical point of view. Whether I am capable of hearing it is something I am sceptical about.

Can I persuade one of you kind souls to lathe one for me? I have a fair few duplicates lying around which shoud aid a fair, if not perfect, comparison.

Best,
Shamsur
 
Unfortantly Shiner,as right as you may be quoting past papers, I always keep an open mind, didn't Philips claim "Perfect Sound" when CD was released to the public.

Another factor in regards to the improved sound, and why it varies from disc to disc, quite a lot of CD's are not perfectly round when they are manufactured, you can obeserve this if you take the lid off most CD/DVD players these days, the disc will wobble quite a lot if it's bad, with a Lathed CD the effects are really reduced, meaning less error correction for the player, I'd imagine, and I'm guessing here, that's why so many people "Including Myself" claim that the feel and timing are improved, is it just a case that the error correction is being used less ? Perhaps WM or Zanash could answer that one?
As for Green Pens, I purchased one back in the early 90's, and couldn't hear any difference, however recently gave the Green Pen another try, and was surprised to hear a difference, all be it a small one.
 
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