[Review] CD lathe update

FWIW, for the subjectivists; I just got my 12 year old son to listen to the lathed and unlathed Genesis cds. His hearing is considerably sharper than mine - he can hear homework coming a mile away and take evasive action... I just asked him to listen to both (the drums passage) and comment on how they sounded, without knowing how one cd differed from the other. He said the unlathed one sounded 'mumbled' and the lathed one sounded 'clearer' and 'more bold' . Since he seems to appreciate the difference, I'm considering stopping his pocket money to pay for one over two years

 

Nice one - I love to hear these kind of stories. Just love to hear them. You see, bugger alogarithingies and solar distances, text books, ferret deterioration, seismic equatorial Quatermass Pit measurements (see P 94)

the thing works.

 

It would be interesting to know why it works though, because having just bumped into this thread it would seem that theoretically it can't. The problem is though, that it does, in the sense that it makes CDs sound different.

 

yep

 

cheers ......

can't say I'm familiar with amp or speakers....

the g08 I heard did leave me cold, but it may do good things in some sytems.

maybe theres someone who knows them better ?

 

Similar to my "courtain lifting" experience, sounds subjectively louder and clearer...

 

Well IMO the reason is two part, the manufacting of CD/CD-R are not perfect "Disc's are not perfectly round in shape" together with stray laser beam light.

The second is the transport of your CDP, you only have to look at transport makes like Wadia,Teac,Pioneer,simply the discs don't wobble as much due to the way they support the CD, meaning less work for error correction and the laser.

"Shiner" Meridian G08 transport works diffrently than most transports, as it have a PC DVD/CD Rom drive, it runs at faster read speeds, allowing the transport to re-read a error. Perhaps this is the reason Shiner is unable to hear any difference with a CD Lathe Disc?
Here is link to the G08

http://www.meridian-audio.com/p_g08.htm

Another factor and being that I can't afford books on lasers etc, I was just wondering if they take in to account real world effects of poor CD transport designs and poor manufactured CD/CD-R ? Or are they just assuming that both Transport & Disc are perfect to start with ?

 

I was going to say that - I read on some forum (can't remember which) that some company was making cd's made of glass!!

edit - found the link - http://www.hifiwigwam.com/view_topic.php?id=9097&forum_id=1&highlight=glass+cd

 

So, where do we buy one of these things, and how much? I've got a disc that Tony did for me during the summer (and sunbathed as well - the disc, I mean, not me!). There's no doubt in my mind that both treatments made a difference.

 

Oh dear .....some one else I demonstrated the lathe to today has delusions...

Their a self confessed sceptic and zg member he may post his thoughts. He reconed it gave about 10% improvment on the top of his superb sounding heavily modded aa5 cdp.

I must stop deluding myself, as has been pointed out this can't possibly make any difference !

 

I am said sceptic and these are my thoughts on the session.

Firstly thanks to Peter for letting me come over to test the lathe and for the assistance that he offers many on the forum including me with repairs/upgrades and cables.

I took over two copies of the Peter Gabriel double CD 'Hit' so that we had treated and original versions to compare.

Many 'miracle' accessories that I have heard over the years have at best provided a slight improvement but have generally just spotlighted different aspects of the sound than before. I can honestly say that the lathe (and pens) works. The best description that I can give is that it removes layers of mush to reveal more of the sound; It is more detailed, dynamic and free of glare. The improvement is easily detectable; It just gives you more of what you already have.

The lathe is an expensive accessory but if you have spent a lot of money on your system and you like the sound but you think that you could get more from it then it is well worth investigating.

 

Zanash came over wednesday with his cd lathe and did a few cdr's and an original pressed one.
We listened to two of zanash's original cd's of the same artist one lathed and one not. My conclusion was the lathed cd was smoother as if it had took that edge off the sound like some cd's have. Mine was a Human League cd called Reproduction re digitized in 2003. While re digitized cd's do have better dynamics can have that nasty edge and raspyness to them. It does sound easy to listen to now as if its an upto date pressing.

Made some copies of other cd's but i dont think there is as such a marked difference. The edge has been taken off but i dont think as much as an original. This may help someone who has a bright system as mine now has toned down a bit. Possibly some people wouldn't Know the difference. So I think yes if you have a large collection it may be beneficial but as always try first if its to your liking. Jim.

 

Interesting to hear nailed down descriptions of improvements - I've never really heard any brashness in my system. What these do for me is soundstage based and air round instruments - which i guess is soundtage! Detail - detail detail rather than type of sound is also a big thing and that is the clincher for me at any rate. I like detail and 3D images. Anyhow I feel i should apologise for starting the whole thing off but it's been interesting to see the argument (sorry discussion) taken up so whole heartedly. I've some more experiments to do with this machine and shall report back due course but probably after this xmas thing.

 

After having said I'd not heard bass and treble improvments ...you can now scrub that .....

 

At last I can now report my findings with CD-R, All 3 CD-R's were TDK Media, burnt at X 1 Speed, using Yamaha CDR-F1 Audio Master Spec.
I didn't really know what to expect,put simply The Green/Black CD-R's are far superior in sound compared to the untreated CD-R.
High Frequencies were finer in detail, and certain tracks, the untreated disc sounded dull in camparison. The timing improvements are still there to be heard. I haven't tried to hear a difference between Green/Black, so I will report back soon.
I can recommend the lathe 100% if you treat a CD-R prior to burning..... it's excellent, and thanks again Zanash!

 

Thanks very much for the lend of 2 CD's - one treated and one not.

I've swapped them back and forth, back and forth, back and forth ... must be twenty times now.

I thought at first that the treated disk possibly sounded cleaner, extra detail on the treble...

But then after a few more swaps they sounded more and more the same - was there a difference or was I imagining it?

I found myself unable to firmly determine which disk was playing and if there was any difference between them.

The extra detail that I thought I'd heard on the treated disk also seemed apparent on the original disk too.

Certainly I can say that in my experience (if) there is a difference it is a very subtle one indeed - and if I was unaware of which disk was playing, there would be no way that I could identify it just from the sound it was making.

I still have the disks here, and one or two of my audiophile tweaky mates will be here over the next week/2, so I'll be asking for their opinions too.

I'd like to re-iterate a big thanks for the loan of the cd's - the loaning party had nothing to gain by lending them, so thanks for the effort

Cheers
Chris

 

Chris - have an A/B listen specifically to that drums passage I referred to I my earlier post. For me, that sounded quite distinctly different, while the rest of the disc I agree was hard to call.

 

All interesting posts .....there's definately more going on than at first glance. My cdp responds extremely well ...others it appears do not!
There doesn't seem any obvious reason for this either as its not price dependent?

 

I'm stiil covinced it's all down to how your CDP reads the data off your CD. Many players like the Meridian G08 uses a buffer stage, and have PC DVD-CD Rom Drives, which I guess means you are not listening to the data/music on the fly "Real Time", the buffer stage reconstructs the data, so I guess this the problem may be in the buffering ?
It dosen't surprise me that if a flaw was ever going to come from a CDP, it would be In the Mechanical Bits, as in a Poor Transport, and Poor Media itself.Solid State Media is the answer, but wouldn't life be boring then !
I can clearly a difference wih Treated and non treated CD-R on My Meridian 500 MK2 Transport, which has a old type Phillps transport fitted.
What CDP's are you using Bottleneck ?

 

You're not going to believe this..


a Meridian 500 MK2 Transport