[Review] Getting animated

zanash said:
This must be too much of a challenge to your cozy little world ..where cables make no difference, the cd lathe doesn't work, cd flux doen't even clean the cd properly, green pens have no effect, the animator doesn't work, isolation feet have no effect, and don't leave out power cable.
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If you leave out the power cable, of course nothing will work.
 
Well said dave !

Tones ...they did not work for you ........period

do you understand the difference ?

just because they didn't work for you does not mean that they don't work full stop. It just means you were unable to hear them for what ever reason ....A bit like the cable that you borrowed from me and said it sounded no different to the one you were using ...thats fine as far as it goes but you forgot to say you weren't using the freebie out the box as you had led me to believe [and you failed to correct my misunderstanding through out our communications] .... as a while later you posted the type and make of the cable in another thread....I don't have a problem with that, I just now know were your coming from.

If you are saying this effect did not take place ...by inference you are calling all those people who have heard it and been sufficiently moved to posted liars ....it not semantics its logic.


I repeat ...are you saying the thirty plus people on twenty or so different occasions in eighteen different systems, who I've shown this device to are all deluded ....?

Am I so persuasive I've deluded the silly dolts into hearing things that aren't there......and if so to what point ?

I don't have the answers ...

I'm by no means perfect....but I don't tell porkies and I only post from first hand experience.

I can't explain why ....so don't ask

but along with a growing number of people I can say this unit has a sonic effect ......

I have said again that I don't agree with the makers claims ....I also think its a huge jump to make ....but the unit works

I do understand your problem ....as I did feel the same when I initially saw the unit. I would have bet my last pay check that it would have no effect....in which case I would have lost .
 
tones said:
Air currents have little effect on these, unless they're very fast (as in hurricane force), something not generally encountered in the average living room. So, even if your device did have some sort of effect on air currents, this is not the same as saying that it has an effect on sound waves moving in that air. The wind tunnel is a completely incorrect analogy.
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Morning tones, just trying to educate myself here. If I'm standing outside talking to someone a little way off and a moderate to strong wind is blowing, the direction of the wind will have an affect on how well we here each other. If I understand what you are saying this is not to do with the propagation of the sound itself - have I missed something or is there something else involved as well?

Thanks
 
DavidF said:
Tones, I am just curious to know whether thats a blanket statemnt covering every body or your own personal experiences from trying these things.
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I naturally can't speak for everyone, David, only for myself. I have actually tried most of these things and found them wanting.

ie to be clear, are you making the statement "different cable materials and possibly different methods of audio support (ie vibration damping ) can't possibly have any sonic effect (for any one).?


OR,

are you making the statement that they don't make any noticable difference for you?

OR

have i missunderstood you entirely?
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To take the first one first. Wire is wire is wire. It has, objectively, precisely zero effect on the sound, unless it has some sort of absurd construction. The the only significant difference between lighting flex and exotic speaker cable is the price. Proper support can indeed have an effect (particularly on turntables), but it's much exaggerated, and totally exaggerated in the case of amplifiers, the ultimate being the nonsense of "The Mana Effect".

The answer to the second one you have probably deduced!

The third one? Not any more!

Basically, these things "work" because people want them to work or are predisposed to believe that they could work. This is not "lying" or "delusion" as Pete rather emotively puts it, it is being perfectly normal. I could be said to be guilty of not hearing them work because, having worked all my life in professional science, I don't want them to. If that be the case, I much prefer things that way. We all live in our own little aural universes and we all find what makes us happy in them. If people's personal aural universes are the better for gizmos such as cables and green pens and all the other stuff, I'd be the last to deny them that.
 
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Joe said:
If you leave out the power cable, of course nothing will work.
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You must come and see how I've arranged the neighbour's detested cat. Mind you, it howls a bit when I wet it and turn on the electricity, and that can be distracting - not to mention that burning smell - takes days to go..:(
 
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zanash said:
Tones ...they did not work for you ........period

do you understand the difference ?

just because they didn't work for you does not mean that they don't work full stop. It just means you were unable to hear them for what ever reason ....
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True, but applying both experience and science persuades me that they don't work.
A bit like the cable that you borrowed from me and said it sounded no different to the one you were using ...thats fine as far as it goes but you forgot to say you weren't using the freebie out the box as you had led me to believe [and you failed to correct my misunderstanding through out our communications] .... as a while later you posted the type and make of the cable in another thread....I don't have a problem with that, I just now know were your coming from.
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Sorry, I don't get that. I did indeed A-B test your very nice IC (if I were in the market for such things, I'd buy yours) against a freebie that came from a Japanese cassette recorder and there was no difference. I can't remember what exactly was said, but I think you might be confusing the fact that I said that your IC was every bit as good as an absurdly expensive Nordost Red Dawn (which also sounded the same as my Japanese freebie)

If you are saying this effect did not take place ...by inference you are calling all those people who have heard it and been sufficiently moved to posted liars ....it not semantics its logic.
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I'm sorry, but that's plain wrong. "Lie" means something told with the deliberate intention to deceive. I don't believe that either yourself or any of the other gents who say they heard a difference did such a thing. I accept that you believe you heard what you heard and honestly reported it. The point of argument is whether that difference was there in reality or not. I believe the latter, you believe the former. Everyone's happy with honour intact and unimpugned.

I repeat ...are you saying the thirty plus people on twenty or so different occasions in eighteen different systems, who I've shown this device to are all deluded ....?
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Deluded only insofar that they heard something they consciously or subconsciously wanted or expected to hear.

Am I so persuasive I've deluded the silly dolts into hearing things that aren't there......and if so to what point ?
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No, and I would never call them silly. They are audiophiles, and therefore they have a certain mindset, which makes them prone to believe this sort of stuff, largely as a result of manufacturers' and magazines' downright deceptions. I know, I was once a believer too.

I'm by no means perfect....but I don't tell porkies and I only post from first hand experience.
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That I accept completely.

I have said again that I don't agree with the makers claims ....I also think its a huge jump to make ....but the unit works
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As long as you think it works and are happy with the results and feel that it's money well spent, that's all that matters, and good luck (and listening) to you.
 
tones said:
You must come and see how I've arranged the neighbour's detested cat. Mind you, it howls a bit when I wet it and turn on the electricity, and that can be distracting...:(
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I trust you've done some blind A:B comparisons using black, tabby, tortoiseshell and white cats? The differences in sound quality can be staggering.
 
Coda II said:
Morning tones, just trying to educate myself here. If I'm standing outside talking to someone a little way off and a moderate to strong wind is blowing, the direction of the wind will have an affect on how well we here each other. If I understand what you are saying this is not to do with the propagation of the sound itself - have I missed something or is there something else involved as well?

Thanks
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Hello, Coda. I note that you had to invoke a "moderate to strong" wind. Yes, it does have some effect, but that also comes partially from the wind noise itself in your ear canal and blowing around the ear. You certainly don't notice a Doppler-like shift in frequencies, do you? You only have to yell louder, not adopt your soprano or basso profundo voice to be heard.

In addition, moderate to strong winds are generally not found in the average living room (certainly not Swiss ones).
 
Joe said:
I trust you've done some blind A:B comparisons using black, tabby, tortoiseshell and white cats? The differences in sound quality can be staggering.
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None of them stagggered at all afterwards, even slightly...
 
tones said:
I naturally can't speak for everyone, David, only for myself. I have actually tried most of these things and found them wanting.
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Yes, Tones, ok.

tones said:
To take the first one first. Wire is wire is wire. It has, objectively, precisely zero effect on the sound, unless it has some sort of absurd construction. The the only significant difference between lighting flex and exotic speaker cable is the price.
Proper support can indeed have an effect (particularly on turntables), but it's much exaggerated, and totally exaggerated in the case of amplifiers, the ultimate being the nonsense of "The Mana Effect".

The answer to the second one you have probably deduced!

The third one? Not any more!


Basically, these things "work" because people want them to work or are predisposed to believe that they could work. This is not "lying" or "delusion" as Pete rather emotively puts it,
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yes, people can make a mistake......and it CAN be quite subjective ( a "black art"?)


tones said:
it is being perfectly normal.
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but I think ceratinly not always the case, from personal experience.

tones said:
I could be said to be guilty of not hearing them work because, having worked all my life in professional science, I don't want them to. If that be the case, I much prefer things that way. We all live in our own little aural universes and we all find what makes us happy in them. If people's personal aural universes are the better for gizmos such as cables and green pens and all the other stuff, I'd be the last to deny them that.
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Tones, I am not sure as I totally agree with you all the time but I think we'll have to agree to disagree!
 
tones said:
You must come and see how I've arranged the neighbour's detested cat. Mind you, it howls a bit when I wet it and turn on the electricity, and that can be distracting - not to mention that burning smell - takes days to go..:(
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I didn't take you for being an unkind man, Tones??
 
You must come and see how I've arranged the neighbour's detested cat. Mind you, it howls a bit when I wet it and turn on the electricity, and that can be distracting - not to mention that burning smell - takes days to go..
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You want to be careful Tones saying things like that, do you not remember what happened to the dishonourable member from Swindon when he 'fessed as to what he'd done with his neighbours cat:D
 
lordsummit said:
You want to be careful Tones saying things like that, do you not remember what happened to the dishonourable member from Swindon when he 'fessed as to what he'd done with his neighbours cat:D
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Mick? What did he do? Did it involve the double barrels of his beloved vintage (Purley?) shotgun?
 
tones said:
Hello, Coda. I note that you had to invoke a "moderate to strong" wind. Yes, it does have some effect, but that also comes partially from the wind noise itself in your ear canal and blowing around the ear. You certainly don't notice a Doppler-like shift in frequencies, do you? You only have to yell louder, not adopt your soprano or basso profundo voice to be heard.

In addition, moderate to strong winds are generally not found in the average living room (certainly not Swiss ones).
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Invoking the forces of nature is not something I have much familiarity with; though I gather that Windy Miller wholeheartedly believes in whistling for the wind (to make his sails go round).
If I remember my schoolboy physics correctly, sound requires a medium in which to travel. If that medium is itself in motion I assume the sound will be affected; in real-world terms what are the bits that we readily perceive? The Doppler shift stuff I associate with the source of the sound being in motion, fire engines and so on. So assuming that I am not running at the speed of a fire engine I still need to yell louder into the wind than I do with the wind behind me (can we assume that wind noise in the ear would be the same in both cases or do we have to factor for the shape of the ear being such that wind noise is greater when it is at your back than in your face?).
Put in simple terms how does the prevailing wind help the sound to carry?
 

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