Stand Up Roy Gregory!

I suppose it would be nice if he did come here to discuss these issues, but there isnt a chance in hell of it happening.

Even if he did, I dont think it would change anything. Magazines still have to operate in a commercial environment, so these issues are inevitable. Just dont buy the mags!
 
how many magazines hold bakeoffs or visits? this to me is the major advantage of forums over magazines in that they've allowed me to listen to other peoples kit and to let people listen to mine.
magazines do have their place, certainly there are a number of reviewers who i can identify with, guage my own reactions to kit they've reviewed and know that if they like somethign i'd probably like it too (or not). however rg's diatribe against internet fora - in fact he was against the fact that there was no editorial control or draconian moderation rather than forums per se, i felt, was ill advised and short sighted. of course it makes good copy and has probably generated a few sales too, just out of curiosity. but it will probably make people realise that they can find out 90% of what's in most mags on the internet for nothing more than 5 minutes of googling.
cheers


julian
 
penance said:
I think what was said previously is true, that they (mag journo's) are probably starting to poo themselves in the realisation that people can gain more help and information on kit from real people on forums, than could ever be gained from a biased rag.
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Do you really think that forums are less biased than mags? Contributers to forums can hide behind their pseudonyms and peddle opinions as facts based on their own preferences, what they are trying to flog or just to stir up the sh*t. Of course thats part of the fun.
 
bemcsa said:
Do you really think that forums are less biased than mags? Contributers to forums can hide behind their pseudonyms and peddle opinions as facts based on their own preferences, what they are trying to flog or just to stir up the sh*t. Of course thats part of the fun.
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Agreed, but your more likey to get a wider view and more ideas than from a rag
 
penance said:
Agreed, but your more likey to get a wider view and more ideas than from a rag
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Good point, but I don't think all of the contributors to HIFI+ sing from the same hymn sheet. Most people that read any magazine that is giving an opinion on any product realise that there is a degree of bias. After all they have to sell the magazine and keep their advertisers happy.

I'm not sure why HIFI+ is being single out. I think its one of the better mags, and as has been previously pointed out definitely the best smelling. The cunning marketing ploy here is that the smell wears off after a couple of months, forcing you to go out and buy the new issue.
 
If you register on a forum or two you can ask any question you like and usually receive a number of opinions.

Some will be totally incorrect (Lowrider's), but ask long enough and in enough places, and a true picture will be revealed. This is not the case when relying on the words of an individual whose entire livelyhood rests with the advertising revenue of a magazine.

Steve, I agree they are all the same, indeed HFN this month is the most blatent case of it (Tact) that I have yet witnessed. Doesn't make it right though, and it also does not give RG the moral high ground either.
 
I do (surpingsly) find the advice and opinions of the contributors to this forum useful and interesting. They are more rounded than some of the fishier ones.

However, you must admit that there are a limited number of members that provide most of the advice. This may be because they are the most knowledgeable or enthusiastic. The trouble with this is that there can be an element of bias and its not simply a case of forums - good, mags - bad.
 
I think a witch hunt in this manner is a bit disgusting.

The man may have opinions and he has the ability to view them. Could Merlin or Data truly tell us they would be utterly balanced if the tables were reversed?

He is a man earning his crust and I for one would feel sick to the bone if he was done out of a job because of a bunch of pumped up forum geeks thinking they are more than they are.

Anyone that can afford the stuff being peddled in HIFI+ is hopefully a bit more savvy than to go on the views of one man.
 
garyi said:
The man may have opinions and he has the ability to view them. Could Merlin or Data truly tell us they would be utterly balanced if the tables were reversed?


Anyone that can afford the stuff being peddled in HIFI+ is hopefully a bit more savvy than to go on the views of one man.

.
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point 1/ hmmm, well if LV gave me a pair of obxs to write about, I would say how good they were if I could keep em'.

point 2/ not so, having the readies does not buy you a BS filter in your grey matter

I have said my piece already, so won't add more, I do think it would be productive, as if people do peddle info. like that, they need to be accountable and a polite inquiry is the way to do it. What better place than here. I will leave the rack, the boot, the water torture to others, I am sure enough are waiting by the stake.
 
bottleneck said:
merlin said:
Some will be totally incorrect (Lowrider's), QUOTE]

Perhaps a good place for a smilie, like this one ;) ?
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Why?

Only joking :D

I think a witch hunt in this manner is a bit disgusting.
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Gary, no one is having a witch hunt. I'm just surprised that RG feels it's OK to critisise from his ivory tower. I can accept that the OBX deserves another review, after all it has been revised. I don't however understand repeating the findings on Nordost cables in just about every issue.

If you genuinely believe colusion does not go on then you are being somewhat naive IMO. I could list numerous examples, and not just in the hifi industry of everything from long term loans to executive lunches.

The HFN example with Tact is just so obvious it is ridiculous. I'm not saying Tact are at fault in any way here. It is however clear that HFN chose not to review the product until a marketing campaign had been agreed. That just is not right, sorry but if the RCS is such a revolutionary upgrade (which IMO it can be), then why hold that information back from the readership for a year and a half?

As for the affluent being savvy, well sadly the inverse is often the case and due to time constraints they simply do not have the time to fully investigate the options, relying heavily on dealers and magazines.
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julian2002 said:
how many magazines hold bakeoffs or visits?
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Actually, both HFC and WHF used to.

HFC had a column called "aspirations", where they'd go and snap pics of and listen to reader's high-end systems. I recall one system build around a marantz CD-7 featured.

WHF used to do an almost bake-off like thing where they'd go to someone's house who'd asked them for help, and they'd take two or three different bits of kit with them, and let the punter come to a conclusion for themselves.
 
Isaac Sibson said:
Actually, both HFC and WHF used to.

HFC had a column called "aspirations", where they'd go and snap pics of and listen to reader's high-end systems. I recall one system build around a marantz CD-7 featured.

WHF used to do an almost bake-off like thing where they'd go to someone's house who'd asked them for help, and they'd take two or three different bits of kit with them, and let the punter come to a conclusion for themselves.
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I used to read HFC many years ago (10+) and I used to like the Aspirations articles as you would get some pretty interesting systems. I remember one guy had a Linn setup in his average sized living room that consisted of (IIRC) a Sondek, a preamp, 8 power amps and 8 external power supplies which all sat on racks side by side. It was so over the top. Some were frankly bizarre.

The only ones I used to get dissapointed by were when they interviewed famous musicians. Most of them had poorly setup, cheap mix and match components that probably were cheaper than the readers own systems. They make the music maybe they know better? ;)
 
isaac,
not quite what i had in mind. probably the closest was the hfw / linn demo a few years ago where linn rented out a suite in a hotel and set up lp12 and cd12 systems and got people in to have a listen.

i think rg has singled himself out by origionaly making the comparison between forum frequenters and people out on the lash. he set out to be provocative and succeeded.
to be honest the biggest advantage that a forum has is that you will get more than one persons opinion of a piece of kit. the only time i've ever seen this done in a magazine was for the naim 552 in hf+ where there were 4 different opinions (albeit in different systems so not strictly a true example of what i'm on about, but better than nothing). that was a one off however...
cheers


julian
 
Chaps

I think that Hifi mag reviewers have had their day.

They are only presenting an opinion on a product just as we do.

If I give an opinion, it is a genuine opinion. You may think I am talking twaddle but it a genuine opinion.

If a reviewer gives an opinion.....it is a loaded dice.

Hence whose opinion should we trust the most.

Here I can get a multitude of opinions for free, 365 days a year whereas with the reviewer, I have to pay for a once a month critique.

Hifi mag reviewers have had their day. RG is not even worth discussing.

Regards

Mick
 
As a reviewer, PM has been reviewing speakers for 15 years, generally using the same (albeit Naim) setup. He probably gets, say, 50 speaker systems per year and listens to each in depth.

He may be 'only presenting an opinion on a product just as we do'. Nevertheless, I tend to give that opinion some value.

And forum members have no axes to grind? No 'religious' preferences of their own - Mana, Naim, Merlin, Meadowlark, Seventh Veil, Wadia, etc., etc., etc., etc.?

Forums, magazines, exhibitions, dealers, showrooms - each has their place.
 
Is this a continuation of his tirade against internet forums from issue 31 which we discussed here a while back?

I very nearly wrote to the magazine to reply to some of his more absurd allegations :mad: but in the end couldn't be arsed.

There's no way in hell that RG would agree to a Q&A session on here on any other forum. Apart from anything else, it would only legitimize the very thing he's trying to knock.

I really don't see how RG can claim unbiased reviews and still keep a straight face. It's quite clear that he's a conduit for Nordost advertising. Even if he really believes what he says about them, his views simply cannot be regarded as objective on the matter. Nordost are the mainstay of the HiFi+ advertising budget.

Michael.
 
Michael,

You should get the issue, it is amusing to say the least the way that RG is trying to belittle in internet community.

His response to one letter starts "Just the most intelligable of a torrent of similar responses" His editorial is devoted to dismissing claims of collusion in a most unconvincing fashion.

Quite ironic that he seems to suggest than the writings of internet forumites are unintelligable ;)

What is all the more interesting is his assertion that the new wave of Chinese products (from which he does not receive an income) will need time to address reliabilty and quality control issues. Virtually every one of the Chinese manufactured products they reviewed suffered reliability issues that they report in the conclusions. They all receive luke warm reviews by HiFi+ standards.

Can you imagine RG reporting on a crossover fault on the OBX?
 

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