Tag Go Bye Bye

Absolutely agree with Julian about the absurdity of dropping the Audiolab name. And that was obviously linked with an attempt to make Tag McLaren another B&O or Bose lifestyle type brand, I think, hence the confusing mixture of products and endless new launches.

Naim have got the marketing thing absolutely right: a clear brand identity, and a clear upgrade path for its users. Harder to achieve that in practice than some people think, so kudos to them (and Linn, for that matter) for managing it for so long.

-- Ian
 
Julian I have visted naim on a number of occasions. The R&D department is indeed small but is a full time situation. Naim are looking into all technologies and of course improving on current technologies.

The recent naim upgrades really were coming off the back of years of RND that went into the 500 and 552, the products people enjoy at quarter the price are a reflection on these products. Naim don't realease new stuff unless there is a proper improvement and the time has come and they are doing that.

The R&D department is looking for the next thing though.

I fail to see how a company such as Tag who lets face it have been in business a long time, could fail so badly to understand the market that they are working in.

Naims approach to the market is to insure a solid well built excellent sounding kit, then to sell only through fully trained hifi shops who actually install the kit. The training for these guys usually involves either naim employees going en situe or holding a training day at naim HQ. What it adds up to is indeed a passionate customer base, but importantly great quality products and proper after sales back up.

The question then is where did tag go wrong? They had if nothing else the naim 'model' of business practise in hifi. And as mentioned else where, there are many companies offering the same great services.

I stand by my previous comments. Tag believed they could take an average product, stick their name on it and watch the cash roll in. However people have obviously seen that the product is in essence japanese, cheap and a little bit vulgar. An bam, good by tag.

Common guys they had a formula 1 car at a hifi show for gods sake, that one launch was enough to make me want to puke, obviously many many people thought the same thing.
 
Originally posted by garyi
owever people have obviously seen that the product is in essence japanese, cheap and a little bit vulgar. An bam, good by tag.
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Gary - there's nothing remotely Japanese or cheap about any Tag product. It's all very high quality, cutting edge British engineering. Tag products are no more Japanese than Naim products.

If you thought they were vulgar then that's up to you. I personally thought that they were rather stylish, understated and very tastefully designed (silly Avantgarde speakers and Aphrodite "all in one" system excepted).

Michael.
 
Originally posted by michaelab
Gary - there's nothing remotely Japanese or cheap about any Tag product. It's all very high quality, cutting edge British engineering. Tag products are no more Japanese than Naim products.

If you thought they were vulgar then that's up to you. I personally thought that they were rather stylish, understated and very tastefully designed (silly Avantgarde speakers and Aphrodite "all in one" system excepted).

Michael.
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Why have they gone pears then Mike?

Cutting edge, quality product, sold out to wharfdale? dosn't really add up. Do you own Tag? ;)
 
Gary, plenty of cutting edge quality companies have gone bust, in all industries, and will continue to do so. After all, Apple only survived because Microsoft threw a ton of cash and a large development team at Apple products to keep the DoJ off their backs, for example...

-- Ian
 
Me thinks that Gary is on a wee wind up here;)

If he keeps it up long enough, the points will stack up nicely at Salisbury HQ:D

That is, of course, provided they don't come a cropper too, although I suspect there is little chance of that, given their very limited exposure to, and investment in, cutting edge technology.

Funny that, I've always found Naim amps to be very cutting edge, just not in the technology department (more the treble area):D
 
The question then is where did tag go wrong? They had if nothing else the naim 'model' of business practise in hifi. And as mentioned else where, there are many companies offering the same great services.

I stand by my previous comments. Tag believed they could take an average product, stick their name on it and watch the cash roll in. However people have obviously seen that the product is in essence japanese, cheap and a little bit vulgar. An bam, good by tag.

Common guys they had a formula 1 car at a hifi show for gods sake, that one launch was enough to make me want to puke, obviously many many people thought the same thing.
.
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Gary,

I know what you are saying, and to some extent I agree, but I do actually believe that they were quite innovative and carried out a lot of R&D in the multichannel arena. I just think they never managed to work out what their key markets were.

Robbo
 
Originally posted by garyi


Cutting edge, quality product, sold out to wharfdale? dosn't really add up. Do you own Tag? ;) [/B]
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So What's this rumour about selling out to wharfdale then? it seems to be continually mentioned on ZG but haven't seen it anywhere else and don't really see it as a reality with what Tag are saying.


Disclosure:

No I don't own a AVR32 but am thinking I might soon... :-)
 
John,

As I keep saying, and Gary keeps misinterpreting, Tag have apparently sold their manufacturing equipment ( the gear that was used to make their own PCB's etc.) to the Quad / Wharfedale consortium.

This is what I have been told, meanwhile Udo Zucker is still standing on the bridge of the Titanic telling the passengers theres nothing to be alarmed about.
 
In fairness to Apple this is a slightly different situation. There are many companies bigger and smaller than Tag doing well.

Apple is basically still the only compition to microsoft, M$ in fairness could have destroyed Apple, but manopolies law put a stop to it.

Thank christ because I will never own a bloody PC ;)
 
Originally posted by garyi
Why have they gone pears then Mike?

Cutting edge, quality product, sold out to wharfdale? dosn't really add up. Do you own Tag? ;)
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I don't know exactly why they're in trouble but many good reasons have been put forward here - the most likely of which is that they tried to be all things to all people and didn't really have a clearly defined "mission". As Jules said early on in the thread: "were they HiFi, Av, Lifestyle or all three?". I'm quite sure that had they stuck to their AV processors and amps they would still be thriving. The quality of your product often has little bearing on how it or the company will fare. Bad management and business decisions usually see to that - just as good management and business decisions will often see a poor product do well. VHS vs. Betamax anyone?

Naim is fairly unique (and cunning) is having built a form of "cult" fanbase around its products. You don't just buy Naim, you buy the whole bloody lifestyle. The cult members just keep shelling out the sheckles for the same old technology, now dressed up in new boxes, at vastly over-inflated prices. They've got a merchandising section selling bags, t-shirts and little twinky silver lapel badges for christs sake. Talk about making you puke :chunder: At least Tag's formula one link was a real one and many of the engineers who worked on the very high tech electronics of the F1 cars also worked on the AV processors. AV is all about digital signals processing as is a lot of F1 technology so the linkup was logical and meaningful.

You've really latched onto the "sold out to Wharfdale" thing but as merlin has pointed out several times already, they've merely sold (if the rumour is even true) their manufacturing gear - not the company, it's brand or products. I'm quite sure that if Naim wanted to get rid of some excess manufacturing gear they would sell it to the person/company offering the best deal - whether it was Linn, Wharfdale or Aiwa. It has nothing to do with what the company represents.

And no, I don't own any Tag kit ;)

Michael.
 
Gary,

You obviously never heard any TAG processor, they are cutting edge and better than any for the price, I still ditched mine for obvious reasons, after the news...
 
Originally posted by michaelab
You've really latched onto the "sold out to Wharfdale" thing but as merlin has pointed out several times already, they've merely sold (if the rumour is even true) their manufacturing gear - not the company, it's brand or products.
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The interesting thing about this is that it's the "manufacturing equipment" that's being sold - a fact not entirely compatible with the official statement that it's just the R&D being stopped, but that "products already introduced...will remain available for the time-being". So do they have a huge stock-pile of existing product and spares, or do they expect this announcement to so kill demand that they do expect the company to die for real in the near future. They could of course be out-sourcing manufacturing, but I doubt that would work out cheaper given that they already have a manufacturing operation.

I assume garyi's just deliberately stirring, but I do wonder whether he has respect for any company other than the Salisbury guys - as I've only ever seen him slagging off everyone else.
 
Graham you're right and if Tag's compeltely inept handling of this whole affair is anything to go by, it's no wonder they are going bust. Udo may be a great engineer but he's no business man!

Almost all the "back pedalling" that Udo has been doing on the Tag forum and elsewhere since the original "leaked" dealer memo has been pretty incompatible with it. How he imagined for a second that a memo to dealers like that would remain a secret is naive at best, some would say downright stupid!

Michael.
 
That is a hell of a lot of stock! no wonder they were in trouble. I reckon there will be a lot of heavily discounted new kit for sale in the near future.
 
Graham, I have owned all sorts of kit and have the highest regards for the likes of Rega, Linn, Dynavector, Denon, Nad, AMC (Nad as well I believe) Kenwood (I always owned kenwood prior to naim)

However I don't believe in a company that purchases another company sticks it badge on the front and brings a flash car to a hifi show, although you can't bame them for trying.

Also why is it that I have this opinion, but that makes me a stirrer? would it be better if I was really sorry for them? I am sorry for the people that worked for the company and wish them every sucess in getting new empoyment, but sorry I didn't ever have respect for tag maclaren, it all seemed rather scynical to me.

This is all of course my opinion, just as Michaels opinion is that naim stick the same stuff in different boxes and sell, its all just opinion. Its why the net is here ;)
 
Mind you I would like an AV set up. lets see how cheap this gear gets :)
 
He He, actually I havn't ever really heard anything I didn't like, its just the marketing that upsets me. But then I get that way about anything, I am a miserable shit.

And when the first flatpanel imac appeard on the web I pre-ordered it 6 months in advance, so I am as guilty as the next man :rolleyes:
 

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