Tag Go Bye Bye

[GrahamN]

Originally posted by CJROSS
...I have never spouted that the DAC 20 is the best DAC out there, I have maybe said in the past that it has better connection facilities than other price comparable DACs available but the best for sound quality no, again I have never said its better sounding
than a DAC for example like the A3.24 have I ?....

Point of information m'lud. When I was looking to upgrade from my Meridian 508.24, I was considering the MF 3D and I asked about the A3.24. Do you not remember recommending that I'd be better off with the DAC20 (well before WM appeared on the scene BTW)?

CJ - you really need to get a sense of perspective about what was quite obviously a tongue-in-cheek quip. I've lost count of the number of times WM's had a pop about my M3 (now sadly superceded by a much classier beast) - and you just get over it. You asked who looked the idiot here - and I have to say the answer's not the one you wanted. As you raised it, I'd say that the recent HFC shenanigans show where this kind of paranoia leads if you let it get to you.

Just chill and (pace Mr L. ) "Enjoy the music"

 

[bottleneck]

Gordon bennet, I leave you kids alone for a few days....!!!!

CJROSS - hope you dont stop posting, diversity of opinion is what a discussion forum is about.

Take for example - Garyi, Merlin and myself - you couldnt have 3 more different systems... but I dont think weve ever fallen out in years.... live and let live, opinions vary (thank god)

If WM takes the piss, poke some fun back, or ignore it mate. IF you let it get to you, youve already lost.


now chill everyone, and have a beer.
or two.
or three

Chris

 

[sideshowbob]

Oddly enough, WM didn't really say anything bad about the DAC20 in this thread (not like him, must be losing it). That was me. Just a bit of harmless leg-pulling on my part of the cable tweakers. (See CJ, everyone can be the target of a bit of harmless joking, even WM and timpy, who you seem to think run this forum or have huge influence over everyone. Neither view is true.)

The current spat is all a bit silly IMO.

-- Ian

 

[GrahamN]

That must be about the most mundane, sensible and lengthy post from Mr bob-no-bass for quite some time!!! (you would've loved the mad accordionist BTW!)

 

[michaelab]

CJ - I've no intention of banning you and no reason to either. You seem to feel that this forum is not your "style" and that's up to you. I was suggesting though that if you do post, don't just come in once every often to take pot shots. I seem to remember that your previous entry into the forum on the FFRC thread also caused a huge commotion ending in the thread being binned in the Kindergarten.

WM has a go at pretty much everyone's kit, I reckon he'd find ways to take the piss even if someone had the exact same setup as him It's just his nature and you can't take it seriously. In any case, as has been pointed out, he wasn't talking down the DAC20 on this occasion, merely suggesting in a humourous way that you might be upset at Ian's comments. It was completely harmless IMO.

Making comments like "someone on HFC who knew more about hifi than WM does in his little toe" is exactly the kind of playground boasting you seem to be so against and don't really help your case. I don't know who you are referring to btw. If people aren't strong enough to defend their positions against some of WMs banter then that says more about them than anything else IMO. His word is not gospel and I don't think there's anyone here who believes that. OTOH, of the many people here (myself included) who have occasionally followed his advice I think they've all been very pleased with the results. In addition, there are certainlly parallels with the way WM talks about certain bits of kit to they way you evangelised about the DAC20 in the not so distant past There are more than a handful of people who bought DAC20s off the back of your postings (including me!). I certainly had no regrets and was very happy with it (but now I have the DAC64 I couldn't go back )

I hope you can find a way past your paranoia about WM and timpy and continue posting here just like everyone else does.

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[GrahamN]

Just a quick correction on my part (to avoid misuderstandings ).
CJ's just pointed out to me (correctly, IIRC) that he didn't actually recommend the DAC20 over the 3.24 on sonic grounds, as he's not actually heard the MF. Sorry CJ. Made no material difference anyway, as I'm well happy with the Wadia!

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by GrahamN
Just a quick correction on my part (to avoid misuderstandings ).
CJ's just pointed out to me (correctly, IIRC) that he didn't actually recommend the DAC20 over the 3.24 on sonic grounds,

Good God

I very much doubt that there is a single system belonging to any forum member capable of bass as tight as CJ's arse

CJ, just get over it man. To be fair, if you will come onto public forae and recommend the likes of FFRC, Dac20 and Sony Amps to discerning music lovers, you've got to expect a bit of stick mate

I got and still get stick for having a Tact system. Doesn't worry me, don't need to defend my choices, I'm confident they are the right ones for me.

WM's opinions are just that, his opinions, no more worthy than yours or mine. Your setting yourself up as the Dac guru simply invited someone like WM to come along and make light of your comments.

The best solution is just to have a good laugh about it.......which is easy when you see some of the opinions expressed on forums

 

[lowrider]

We have many guinea pigs here, you with DACs, Merlin with TACT, me with surround and DVD players, etc...

Just hold your horses and give those old conservative guys a good fight, like we do... :guiness: :chainsaw:

 

[merlin]

For anyone interested, I understand that Tag have just sold all of their manufacturing equipment to Quad/Wharfedale

Who'd have believed that 10 years ago.

 

[Matt F]

Originally posted by merlin
For anyone interested, I understand that Tag have just sold all of their manufacturing equipment to Quad/Wharfedale

Well in that case if you see Wharfedale top-loading DVD players going cheap in Tesco's get in there quickly!

:MILD:

Matt.

 

[merlin]

It's a bad time for high technology companies at the moment. I fear that my beloved Tact may well be heading the same way

Just goes to show that the Audiofool world is full of anachrophiles:chop:

 

[HenryT]

Originally posted by merlin
Just goes to show that the Audiofool world is full of anachrophiles:chop:

If someone offered me a choice between a complete Tact set-up or a nice Koetsu cartridge for my T/T, I know which I'd take!

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by HenryT
If someone offered me a choice between a complete Tact set-up or a nice Koetsu cartridge for my T/T, I know which I'd take!

Probably because you have actually heard a properly setup Koetsu Henry

 

[Robbo]

Just goes to show that the Audiofool world is full of anachrophiles

Or maybe we just prefer the sound of our systems as they are

 

[HenryT]

..and strangely enough, it was heard on a system used by a manufacturer *at a hi-fi show* who neither imports nor has any other financial connections with Koetsu...

 

[Robbo]

I fear that my beloved Tact may well be heading the same way

It would be a great shame however if someone as innovative as Tact does bite the dust.

 

[merlin]

Originally posted by Robbo
Or maybe we just prefer the sound of our systems as they are

Each to their own Neil, at least you have heard a good Tact setup so are qualified to comment. Life would be boring if we all liked the same stuff, for me personally, I would be gutted if Tact went under, as I cannot find anything remotely in the same league at it's price point. In fact, it does some things better than anything out there, and at a relatively affordable RRP too.

Personal choice I know, as you are fond of reminding people, you go and listen to a number of different systems and always come back to preferring the sound of your own. It's the comfort zone, and I've found my comfort zone with the Tact gear. It's all rumours at the moment anyway so you never know!!!!!

It's a shame, regardless of what you think of the product (and there are a lot of fans out there!), that high technology companies are hitting the wall. Where will the next advance come from without bleeding edge companies

And please don't come back to the "Listening through the haze of vinyl and valves" arguement, cos I, and a great number of others, just don't get it

 

[Robbo]

Merlin,

see my previous post, I totally agree with you. It is a real shame if hi tech companies that challenge the status quo do not survive.

BTW, I do like your system and the Tact, I was just giving you a bit of stick. The Tact is a great solution in many respects. I would certainly consider it myself if I was starting afresh. But at the moment I am reasonably OK with where I am.

 

[michaelab]

IMO all the high end (whether high tech or not) hifi companies would do well to consider their position and the market in general.

I think that more and more, people are looking for good value, and lots of £5K+ gear simply is NOT good value, which ever way you cut it. Look at ex-dem and s/h prices and 95% of £5K+ gear is going for half its RRP or even less after only 6 months. When dealers typically have 40% margins :inferno: it's no surprise that people are realising they're getting taken to the cleaners.

I personally have bought all my recent main bits of kit (speakers, amp, DAC, transport) second hand at a maximum of 50% RRP - and hifi, unlike cars, doesn't really wear out.

The days when people would just splash out £12K on a CDP without thinking are over. Honestly, what kind of idiot is going to buy a new Linn CD12, Mark Levinson 390S, etc, etc when there are so many better or equivalent alternatvies at a fraction of the price? Even the same products are all available 2nd hand for 50% or less of RRP with no discernable difference to the new product.

I think that companies like Tag and TacT really were spending serious money on R&D and pushing the technical envenlope and that does cost money. A lot of ultra high end gear though is just priced at what they think they can get away with, often far in excess of its true cost, allowing for a reasonable profit etc.

The high end hifi market is very small and it's regarded by most people (even audiophiles I would say) as an extravagance or luxury they can do without when times are tough. All the time there are threads on AudioAsylum about people "downsizing" their system from say, a £50K one, to a £10K one due to financial constraints and being overjoyed that they haven't really lost anything.

High end hifi companies have been taking the p*ss out of rich punters for far too long and it's not surprising that the gravy train is running off the rails :MILD:

Michael.

 

[amazingtrade]

I think a lot of mid stuff is even quite expensive for what it is, I saw in WHF the open back of a MF ( I can't remember the model but was not a full sized one) amp. This amp cost £700 and all I could see in the box was a nice transformer, a heatsink a few transistors and some elna capacitors. It probably cost no more than £100 even if all the parts were high quality. I'm sure the MF sounded very good indeed but then I am also sure an early 90's model on ebay for £200 would have sounded just as good.

Its a shame to see TAG go though they always seemed more inovated than some of the hi-end companies stuck in the dark ages.