The Cable Test - listen and decide

[RobHolt]

You appear to be going to a great deal of effort, where no effort is necessary.

Oh but it is David.

I dislike seeing people taken for a ride.

And with such a small sample no you aren't proving anything.

Perhaps you should have taken part then David?
It isn't proof - it is additional information out there for people to consider and hopefully assist any decision.
Shorter files were posted so you could have been listening in a few minutes. Ho hum.

 

[DavidF]

Oh but it is David.

I dislike seeing people taken for a ride.

As in my foot note, Rob (bottom line).

Perhaps you should have taken part then David?
It isn't proof - it is additional information out there for people to consider and hopefully assist any decision.
Shorter files were posted so you could have been listening in a few minutes. Ho hum.

Ho hum, indeed.

When others can work 12 hours shifts through the night, packing 40+ pallets of dairy products, then do better than me, I shall consider it. (edit; thanks for making the effort though!)

Actually I'm lieing, I've listened to enough cables already to know my stance on the subject. I might also say I've had a lot of fun doing it!

So, like I say please don't try to spoil other peoples' fun!

Its their money at the end of the day, not yours!

 

[Wickfut]

The method was shown - Page one. The ADC is also detailed there (post 9)

The ADC in question has so far recorded around 60 album tracks on PFM for the various bake-off threads so you can download and listen at will, and read the comments.
The ADC isn't intelligent though, so when I replace say the Rega felt mat on the TT with a Linn felt mat and the difference is clearly audible (and visible on the output trace), it appears not to be masking. Odd that it then switches to masking mode when changing cables. Sorry, it doesn't hold water.

Why are you sidestepping the ADC ? It's a really simple question and it is quite relevant.

also , what has being able to tell the difference in a mat have to do with anything ? cables and mats are not alike in the world I live on

[edit: lets get this right , you're using a behringer piece of shite ADC and that's supposed to prove something , hang on while i laugh some more]

 

[RobHolt]

David, I can assure you that most people don't see being persuaded that spending a fortune on wire as 'fun'.

Now, you've spent far more time on here today posting than it would take to listen to four short audio clips

How about I send you a CD containing the clips, with the track lengths slightly edited to maintain the blind aspect?
You must be able to find 15 minutes.......

 

[RobHolt]

Why are you sidestepping the ADC ? It's a really simple question and it is quite relevant.

also , what has being able to tell the difference in a mat have to do with anything ? cables and mats are not alike in the world I live on

Sidestepping? - it is listed on page one (for the third time....)
Audiosmile DEQ2496

I think you need to read the thread as you seen to have dived in at the end.

You are arguing that the ADC is perhaps masking differences.
I'm explaining to you that it clearly doesn't mask something as subtle as swapping one felt mat for another. If capable of revealing that difference, a pretty subtle one, it should be able to reveal the difference between £150 worth of Chord cable and some bits of brass and sweet wrapper.
The counter argument is that the ADC is applying some sort of intelligent masking. So explain it.

 

[DavidF]

David, I can assure you that most people don't see being persuaded that spending a fortune on wire as 'fun'.

Man, your clutching at straws here.....

No one had to "pursuade" me, as you put it!

Now, you've spend far more time on here today posting than it would take to listen to four short audio clips

Ovr two crappy gateway speakers is hardly reperesentative test.

Down load to a cd?

thats never gone acording to plan whenever I've done it in the past.

If I had done it, it proved neg, it would just have highlighted diferences inthe recording, as know my experineces from the past.

How about I send you a CD containing the clips, with the track lengths slightly edited to maintain the blind aspect?
You must be able to find 15 minutes.......

You can, thanks, but i'm afriad stuff doesn't always get returned (ask pete!!!) so i try not to borrow of anyone now.

Besides, like I say I have my own previous experiences.

 

[RobHolt]

Chicken

First time you've mentioned gateway speakers. You simply said you didn't have time.

I wasn't offering a loan - you can keep it.

Tell you what, how about I loan you a nice dac so that you can listen through your regular hi-fi?

 

[DavidF]

Chicken

First time you've mentioned gateway speakers. You simply said you didn't have time.

I wasn't offering a loan - you can keep it.

Tell you what, how about I loan you a nice dac so that you can listen through your regular hi-fi?

Sarcasm and snidey remarks don't befit you Rob, you too nice a guy for that.

I'll pm my address now, you pm me yours but I don't hold out nay guarentees you'll see them again.

I'll do my best though.


(BTW you can send the dac by all means, same rules apply though!)


address coming now

 

[Wickfut]

Sidestepping? - it is listed on page one (for the third time....)
Audiosmile DEQ2496

yeah sorry I missed it, hence the edit at the bottom of my post.

You are arguing that the ADC is perhaps masking differences.

Behringer is probably the biggest joke in the pro audio world and so yes, I am saying that attempting to do anything involving high fidelity on it is being masked.

I'm explaining to you that it clearly doesn't mask something as subtle as swapping one felt mat for another. If capable of revealing that difference, a pretty subtle one, it should be able to reveal the difference between £150 worth of Chord cable and some bits of brass and sweet wrapper.
The counter argument is that the ADC is applying some sort of intelligent masking. So explain it.

Look , your behringer is masking everything. You might as well be recording on a wax cylinder and then claiming cables make no difference.

Removing/changing your mat from your turntable will lower the height of the record and so you'll need to alter your turntables arm height tracking, it will also add more earthbound vibrations to the needle (your deck isn't suspended is it?) . I'm not suprised your can pick this up with the ADC you're using, as you're probably changing the whole sound balance of your TT.

Record onto something decent , record 24bit 96khz or similar with -4db headroom. Record with a dedicated ADC and not a glorified EQ for your local boozers version of chaz n dave.

I'm not saying that cables are different , im saying that your test is flawed.

Why did you choose a turntable to record from ? why didn't you use a CDP that are known for stability and then we could have done negative phase tests to see if any differences where present ?

 

[RobHolt]

Sidestepping? - it is listed on page one (for the third time....)
Audiosmile DEQ2496

yeah sorry I missed it, hence the edit at the bottom of my post.



Behringer is probably the biggest joke in the pro audio world and so yes, I am saying that attempting to do anything involving high fidelity on it is being masked.



Look , your behringer is masking everything. You might as well be recording on a wax cylinder and then claiming cables make no difference.

Removing your mat from your turntable will lower the height of the record and so you'll need to alter your turntables arm height tracking, it will also add more earthbound vibrations to the needle (your deck isn't suspended is it?) . I'm not suprised your can pick this up with the ADC you're using, as you're probably changing the whole sound balance of your TT.

Of course it isn't - and you still haven't read the thread!
The input and output circuits on the Behringer are replaced with transformers, and the PSU is cleaned up. I suggest you try one before offering theories on something you've never heard.
it has also been blind tested against a Lavry among others so I suggest you research what that produced, but keep wriggling.

Classic argument though when you don't like the result - your equipment isn't good enough.

Your arguments re the TT and 'earthbound vibrations' are pure theory and supposition.
Again you appear to read selectively - I said replace a Rega felt mat for a Linn one. No one is placing record onto the paltter.

Fascinating that people will throw out all kinds of theories to explain away what is pretty obvious.

 

[DavidF]

Look , your behringer is masking everything. You might as well be recording on a wax cylinder and then claiming cables make no difference.


I haven't gone into the whys and wherefores of how you've done this Rob.

Please be sure before you start moving stuff al la our royal mail.

 

[RobHolt]

Look , your behringer is masking everything. You might as well be recording on a wax cylinder and then claiming cables make no difference.


I haven't gone into the whys and wherefores of how you've done this Rob.

Please be sure before you start moving stuff al la our royal mail.

I'm happy to use registered post and pay both ends.
Very little possibility of loss.

 

[Wickfut]

see it from my perspective on what is more believable :-

All cables sound the same because a junk ADC with mods doesn't show any difference

or

A junk ADC with mods can't show the differences between cables

let me think, hmmmm ?

 

[DavidF]

I'm happy to use registered post and pay both ends.
Very little possibility of loss.

Rob, its not the money and frankly I'm not terribly happy at that inference.


M y job leaves me absolutely exhausted.

 

[RobHolt]

see it from my perspective on what is more believable :-

All cables sound the same because a junk ADC with mods doesn't show any difference

or

A junk ADC with mods can't show the differences between cables

let me think, hmmmm ?

Don't think too long.

The 'junk' ADC (which you clearly haven't heard) was judged to be comparable in quality to a Lavry when compared blind earlier this year. The five listeners could have been deaf I suppose.

The offer stands for you or anyone else to do this live.
I can offer you five amplifiers, five pairs of speakers including stats and horns. No ADC needed, though we can put it on loop if you wish and you can A/B the effect?
I'll put my money where my mouth is, how about you?

 

[RobHolt]

Rob, its not the money and frankly I'm not terribly happy at that inference.


M y job leaves me absolutely exhausted.

No slight intended David, I'm simply responding to your suggestion that I might not get the DAC back!

I'll not pressure you, if you are exhausted then fair enough.
Perhaps when you get some free time we can revisit.

 

[Wickfut]

Don't think too long.

The 'junk' ADC (which you clearly haven't heard) was judged to be comparable in quality to a Lavry when compared blind earlier this year. The five listeners could have been deaf I suppose.

or you could have been using crap cables

The offer stands for you or anyone else to do this live.
I can offer you five amplifiers, five pairs of speakers including stats and horns. No ADC needed, though we can put it on loop if you wish and you can A/B the effect?
I'll put my money where my mouth is, how about you?

What, meet up with strangers from the interweb and spend a day swapping IC cables in a hifi? I know it sounds like a wonderful experience, maybe even a dream come true but I think I'll have to pass. Thanks for the offer anyway.

As I've posted earlier , I'm not too fussed about the outcome from cables being different as I don't spend too much on them.
I do have a few cables though and I can hear differences between (some) of them.
I know whatever I say about differences in cables , you won't believe - just like I won't believe you claiming to have a DEQ that resembles anything Hi Fi.

Let's just leave it at that , thanks for the amusement though

 

[DavidF]

No slight intended David,

ok

I'm simply responding to your suggestion that I might not get the DAC back!

I assumed the dac was meant in jest....?!

Interesting as it would be to try it, the idea is best left, but thanks.

I'll not pressure you, if you are exhausted then fair enough.
Perhaps when you get some free time we can revisit.

[/QUOTE]

You said you were going to send the cds would not be upset if there might be a delay in their return?!

Entirely up to you, now.

You shoiuld ahve my address.

 

[RobHolt]

- just like I won't believe you claiming to have a DEQ that resembles anything Hi Fi.

Astonishing comment about something you've never heard.
Lot of that about though in audio land.

 

[RobHolt]

ok





I assumed the dac was meant in jest....?!

Interesting as it would be to try it, the idea is best left, but thanks.



You said you were going to send the cds would not be upset if there might be a delay in their return?!

Entirely up to you, now.

You shoiuld ahve my address.

I really would send you a dac, it wasn't a joke.
I though perhaps that you were analogue only for a moment there

The CD offer is not a loan - you really can keep it!
I'll burn you the files during the week and post them.