King Arthurs wizard Merlin was a welshman, and he enlightened, Alex.
Anne Robinson is definitely not Welsh, but the what's the point of her anyway?
Anne Robinson is definitely not Welsh, but the what's the point of her anyway?
The Good The Bad And The Ugly
- Thread starter Paul Duerden
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penance
Arrogant Cock
Welsh or just of Celt origin (wich isnt native anyway)?
I think it is accepted now that his name was not Merlin, but Merlin refers to a position within the ranks of those that can heal/comune with the spirits...
I think it is accepted now that his name was not Merlin, but Merlin refers to a position within the ranks of those that can heal/comune with the spirits...
Most legends seem to place Merlin in Welsh mythology, where he existed long before being drawn into the Arthur myth. If I am correct, it was Geofrey of Monmouth who introduced Merlin to the story of Arthur. Prior to this he had existed in early Welsh poems as Myrddin, and was often portrayed as mad and living with beasts, Geofrey corrupted the name Myrddin to Merlin presumably to make it more familiar to a Norman audience.
Dr. Fox may well know a lot more on this than me.
Dr. Fox may well know a lot more on this than me.
penance
Arrogant Cock
most of Geofrey's work can be discounted. He just created the mordern impression of Arthur, but thankfully people are moveing away from that.
I heard that Merlin was more a class than a anme, but your suggestion is new to me and interesting. I may try to find out more.
I heard that Merlin was more a class than a anme, but your suggestion is new to me and interesting. I may try to find out more.
Hi Penance,
The Dark Ages is definitely not my period, far too interesting and infinitely speculative for a start. Geofrey Of Monmouth is a very pleasant fiction, possibly designed to Normanise Arthur. The Normans were pretty pissed about the British belief in a leader who would come again and lead them against their enemies. It gave the Brits a rallying point to focus on. The answer is simple, make the great hero into a Norman and voila, the Normans are strengthened. If your enemy won't go away assimilate him.
The early Christians were fairly brilliant at this, you have a "false God" OK we'll make him into a saint and give him or her a feast day. Brigitte, later Saint Brigitte is a good example of this.
The Dark Ages is definitely not my period, far too interesting and infinitely speculative for a start. Geofrey Of Monmouth is a very pleasant fiction, possibly designed to Normanise Arthur. The Normans were pretty pissed about the British belief in a leader who would come again and lead them against their enemies. It gave the Brits a rallying point to focus on. The answer is simple, make the great hero into a Norman and voila, the Normans are strengthened. If your enemy won't go away assimilate him.
The early Christians were fairly brilliant at this, you have a "false God" OK we'll make him into a saint and give him or her a feast day. Brigitte, later Saint Brigitte is a good example of this.
The Devil
IHTFP
This being before light bulbs were invented by Mr Bulb, of Croydon.
penance
Arrogant Cock
I think youll find it was Mr Lamp of Norwich
bulbs are for planting to make pwetty flowers
bulbs are for planting to make pwetty flowers
domfjbrown
live & breathe psy-trance
Originally posted by penance
I think youll find it was Mr Lamp of Norwich
bulbs are for planting to make pwetty flowers
#birds are something you shag
#grass is something you smoke
etc etc (what WAS that Pulp song - it was class...)
If I had the surname "Bulb" I'd call one of my kids "Lite" to be a real sod; Just like poor old Annette Curten (allegedly a real name!!!!). As my surname is Brown, could always have a kid called "Stein":
"Bronson, Charles"
"Here"
"Brown, Stein"
"Here" <classroom sniggers>
Well, it's better than having Francis as your middle name
joel
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Boring
I hate to be the one to burst your anglo-pretensions, not
But would anyone care to point me to some kind of factual proof of the existance of a "merlin" type figure in the record?
Non ! Rien de rien ...
Non ! Je ne regrette rien...
C'est payé, balayé, oublié
Je me fous du passé!
I hate to be the one to burst your anglo-pretensions, not
But would anyone care to point me to some kind of factual proof of the existance of a "merlin" type figure in the record?Non ! Rien de rien ...
Non ! Je ne regrette rien...
C'est payé, balayé, oublié
Je me fous du passé!
You can't ask for proof Joel, that's why they are the Dark Ages because we don't really know anything about them. The best you get is strong possibility.
From direct experience I do know that we have a Merlin on this Forum, and that's a fact.
From direct experience I do know that we have a Merlin on this Forum, and that's a fact.
Joel,
I think a historical Merlin may well take us back to pre Roman times, he would have been a Druid and we know next nothing about Druids. The likelihood seems to be that Druids wrote nothing down but maintained an oral tradition rather like the Irish bards. Thus when the Romans wiped them out nothing remained of their beliefs.
Evidence for Arthur is a bit more plentiful, excavations at Cadbury Castle near Glastonbury, seem to indicate that there certainly was a powerful and well armed British warlord at about this time. I seem to remember that there is reference to this in the Saxon Chronicles as well. The most likely explanation for me is that Arthur was a Roman Britain, (Arturus=The Bear} fighting for what was left of Roman Britain against the Saxons.
I think a historical Merlin may well take us back to pre Roman times, he would have been a Druid and we know next nothing about Druids. The likelihood seems to be that Druids wrote nothing down but maintained an oral tradition rather like the Irish bards. Thus when the Romans wiped them out nothing remained of their beliefs.
Evidence for Arthur is a bit more plentiful, excavations at Cadbury Castle near Glastonbury, seem to indicate that there certainly was a powerful and well armed British warlord at about this time. I seem to remember that there is reference to this in the Saxon Chronicles as well. The most likely explanation for me is that Arthur was a Roman Britain, (Arturus=The Bear} fighting for what was left of Roman Britain against the Saxons.
joel
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Paul,
What I find interesting is the desire to turn "Merlin" or "Arthur" or even "St George" (who I thought was the Roman Auxillary who tried to save Briton from the Saxon hordes) into literal "historical" figures.
To me, they are, like Christ in many ways, icons that represent the national psyche (a terribly unfashionable idea, I realise) at a particular point in time.
From my point of view the idea of Merlin exists, so Merlin exists. It doesn't really matter who a "historical" Merlin may have been. What interests me is why people would want to try and rationalise the concept of Merlin.
The Ardbeg is cask-strength tonight
What I find interesting is the desire to turn "Merlin" or "Arthur" or even "St George" (who I thought was the Roman Auxillary who tried to save Briton from the Saxon hordes) into literal "historical" figures.
To me, they are, like Christ in many ways, icons that represent the national psyche (a terribly unfashionable idea, I realise) at a particular point in time.
From my point of view the idea of Merlin exists, so Merlin exists. It doesn't really matter who a "historical" Merlin may have been. What interests me is why people would want to try and rationalise the concept of Merlin.
The Ardbeg is cask-strength tonight
I agree with you Joel, but we live in a very literal age where most people haven't read poetry, so don't understand "poetical truth" which is essentially what these stories are. Very Descartian, " I think there is a Merlin therefore there is a Merlin", and of course completely inarguable, even if someone were inclined to want to.
If we take all the magic and the wonder out of life, what are we left with? A bloody great spiritual vacuum that's what. In our age this vacuum is usually filled with rampant consumerism with people rushing around to buy the next great thing they have no use for. The other way of filling the void is with drugs and of course many do both.
Rant over and off for a late lunch and a pint of Bitter and Twisted, which must have been produced by alchemists of truly awesome power.
If we take all the magic and the wonder out of life, what are we left with? A bloody great spiritual vacuum that's what. In our age this vacuum is usually filled with rampant consumerism with people rushing around to buy the next great thing they have no use for. The other way of filling the void is with drugs and of course many do both.
Rant over and off for a late lunch and a pint of Bitter and Twisted, which must have been produced by alchemists of truly awesome power.
penance
Arrogant Cock
Its our romantic side, we need romantic legends to deal with life
And we need life to create romantic legends.
