The Poll To End it All

[3DSonics]

Hi,

Thorsten the problem is not whether or not people take one side or the other on the issue but that recently its taken over the board

True, not only here it would seem, based on this:

After digging to a depth of 100 metres last year, French scientists found traces of copper wire dating back 1000 years, and came to the conclusion that their ancestors already had a telephone network one thousand years ago.

So, not to be outdone, in the weeks that followed, American scientists dug 200 metres and headlines in the US papers read: "US scientists have found traces of silica, indicating 2000 year old optical fibres, and have concluded that their ancestors already had advanced high-tech digital telephone 1000 years earlier than the Russians."

One week later, the Guardian newspapers reported the following: "After digging as deep as 500 metres, British scientists have found absolutely nothing. They have concluded that 5000 years ago, their ancestors were already using wireless technology.

Ciao T

 

[lordsummit]

IMO banning any subject other than what the AUP already appropriately provides for would be neither very democratic nor constructive.

This is what we feel, thanks Sir Galahad. Ultimately it depends on what I believe to be mostly adults behaving in a sensible manner. I believe that as mods we should follow debate not lead it. Hopefully we're not following picking up the crap that someone has left behind them.
This is undoubtably a male dominated forum, so testosterone does play it's part, along with the inevitable willy waving. I personally feel that one or two posters, I'm not going to mention names have been rather too guilty of that recently, hence the proliferation of threads where this rather cyclical argument occurs.

I deal with this problem often at work; to the extent I've developed a few questions intended to lead guilty partys into reviewing their performance, and approaching things in a less alienating manner:

1. Do you see yourself as the pedagogue disseminating information, or the facilitator of learning? Which will be most effective?

2. Which do you feel your target will benefit most from?

3. If you yourself are confrontational, what will the likely response be?

4. How much time do you spend listening to the person you disagree with? How much commonality do you have with them?
(It's usually more than you think) How could you use that to form an understanding?

5. What are you trying to achieve and why? Do you want to change an opinion or understand it? If you want to change an opinion why? Is there a rational reason for it or just a belief that you are right?

Perhaps one or two of us could think about this. I use them most often with young male teachers who are having problems with other young male students. Willy waving is often apparent here. A fight for dominance and control of a group ensues, and guess what alienation and dispute follows.

 

[ditton]

I suggested the strapline "more signal, less noise" for the avtalk forum. its also applicable for 'ZeroGain' and its disappointing that discussion on how to achieve faithful and/but pleasing reproduction can collapse into noise, albeit quite colourful rather than just white noise.

 

[joel]

I just love discussing cables. In fact I reciently purchased several thousand dollars worth. That's how important cables are to me!!!

 

[Bradders]

No point discussing whether cables make a difference to system performance, though, is there?

'Yes, they do'.

'No, they don't'.


Fascinating.

 

[rsand]

I think its a problem when people stop being civil with each other and taking the pi55 serves no other purose than insiting arguments. It was the cable anarchy that brought me to ZG from HFC I didn't expect it to happen here

 

[joel]

'Yes, they do'.

'No, they don't'.

'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.

There, I think that settles it

 

[Markus S]

I just love discussing cables. In fact I reciently purchased several thousand dollars worth. That's how important cables are to me!!!

Let me guess, it was either 10 m at 1,000 $/m or 1,000 m at 10 $/m, hmmm, now what could it be ...

 

[joel]

Let me guess, it was either 10 m at 1,000 $/m or 1,000 m at 10 $/m, hmmm, now what could it be ...

 

[Uncle Ants]

'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.

There, I think that settles it

No it doesn't

 

[3DSonics]

No it doesn't

Yes. It Does!

 

[Sir Galahad]

'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.
'Yes, they do'.
'No, they don't'.

Joel, I can see you finally figured out what the Copy/Paste buttons were for

 

[joel]

Joel, I can see you finally figured out what the Copy/Paste buttons were for

No I didn't.

 

[MO!]

Not a bad idea, though I get the distinct impression that most sceptics see it as their mission to save the inexperienced and impressionable from the evil of believing in cables. They may fear creating a protected area might lead poor individuals to make bad decisions if their guiding hand is stopped from providing this vital service.

I agree, and that's fair enough.

I'm undecided on cables. I was convinced they made a difference when first getting into hifi, simply because magazines told me they did. I've never got round to doing any sort of testing so who knows.

But I feel that those who point out they don't think they make a difference should be allowed to point this out to those who are asking for comments. Just as much as those who advise on which they believe are best for the job.

It's about keeping it on track, and the way in which th epoint is made.

There's some blatant *hit stirrers here. But often it's the reaction to someone simply stating a different pov. If someone wants to advise "I don't think they make a difference, make sure you test for yourself and don't just believe the hype", that as valid a point as suggesting a certain brand or such.

 

[Uncle Ants]

No I didn't.

Yes you did.

 

[michaelab]

Not a bad idea, though I get the distinct impression that most sceptics see it as their mission to save the inexperienced and impressionable from the evil of believing in cables.

The same could be said of the cable believers, that they see it as their mission to save the inexperienced and impressionable from the evil science of the sceptics

Michael.

 

[notaclue]

If only someone would prove that cables sound different then there would be no further argument.

 

[MO!]

If only someone would prove that cables sound different then there would be no further argument.

You think? I'd imagine plenty of argument over the testing method!

 

[mosfet]

The poll to end all cable threads is turning into another cable thread. Here's a nice pair of puppies.

 

[Effem]

A wise man once said it's very easy to identify a genius because he is always surrounded by fools and idiots trying to prove him wrong and that's the way I see the majority of cable debates.

In my experience the naysayers present the same tired old arguments most of which are utterly irrelevent because what they quote is not even related to sonic perception i.e. placebo and quoting objective measurements which are so far behind the times in current technological thinking. This is what bogs the debates down so much and what stirs up the intense frustration each time from both sides of the argument.

What would progress the debate is if just for once, just once, they shut up and they might, just might, learn something. If they for one minute abandoned their absurd dogmas to say "maybe", "possibly", "perhaps", "unlikely", or heaven help us "show me" then perhaps the topic would take a positive and refreshing step forwards IMHO