The Poll To End it All

[3DSonics]

Hi,

The same could be said of the cable believers, that they see it as their mission to save the inexperienced and impressionable from the evil science of the sceptics

Actually, you will rarely if ever find people who know/believe/assume that cables make a difference and an improvement go out and miltantly agruing how anyone using generic cables is an evil fraudulent person.

They may share their experiences with their cables, but they very rarely will start any discussion of the merits of cables or not.

It is the general dismissal accompanied by suggestions that they are delusional, which causes the "pro cable" people to take a defensive stance.

What really get's the sceptics going though if anyone uses their very own methodology, counters their specious and made up "arguments" and lines of argument and does so with reasonable sucess, at least to cast doubt at the veracity of their dismissal.

At any extent, the start of the action usually comes from flat out denial by the sceptics termed to annoy at least. I have by now seen it so many times, it is highly boring.

Ciao T

 

[michaelab]

In my experience the naysayers present the same tired old arguments most of which are utterly irrelevent
...
What would progress the debate is if just for once, just once, they shut up and they might, just might, learn something. If they for one minute abandoned their absurd dogmas to say "maybe", "possibly", "perhaps", "unlikely", or heaven help us "show me" then perhaps the topic would take a positive and refreshing step forwards IMHO

This is precisely the kind of antagonistic and extremely unhelpful post that makes cable debates rapidly turn into a slagging match. It would not "progress the debate" at all .

As mosfet has pointed out, this thread about cable debates is itself turning into a cable debate....

Michael.

 

[michaelab]

At any extent, the start of the action usually comes from flat out denial by the sceptics termed to annoy at least

Already you're trying to make sceptics out to be the bad guys. Both sides are equally to blame - trying to elevate one side above the other is just as bad as the cable debates themselves.

Michael.

 

[leonard smalls]

The poll to end all cable threads is turning into another cable thread. Here's a nice pair of puppies.

My 8 month old puppy died last Saturday..
Spaniel/collie crosses are just too fast to snuffle around the woods - they get impaled on branches as mine did.

 

[Stereo Mic]

Michael,

It's offensive to suggest someone is deluded. I don't think it's offensive to suggest that science may not hold all the answers, merely controversial.

 

[sideshowbob]

But some people clearly are deluded. I think it's a public service to point this fact out to them.

Anyway, debates about nonexistent phenomena always stir the most violent disagreements, and debates about the audibility of different bits of wire are merely one example of that.

At this point, I shall exit this thread immediately

-- Ian

 

[Uncle Ants]

The poll to end all cable threads is turning into another cable thread. Here's a nice pair of puppies.

What cute ickle puppies

But yes you are right. You go away to the caff for a nice cup of coffee a smoke and a tut over the NME, you come back and what happens - a serious thread about why we really don't need any more cable threads turns into another bloody cable thread.

I rest my case. Like religion and politics should never be discussed in polite company I'd like to see some subjects to be taboo on hifi fora. Ain't gonna happen though is it.

Me I think both lots are wrong the sceptics because the nasty freeby wires clearly don't sound the same as something a little nicer for 20 or 30 quid and the believers because you would have to be deluded to imagine that spending upward of 4 figures represents a sensible purchase. But that's the power of this evil ... its even drawn me in

 

[Stereo Mic]

But some people clearly are deluded. I think it's a public service to point this fact out to them.
-- Ian

And would you have offered this service to the person on your Avatar?

 

[Uncle Ants]

And would you have offered this service to the person on your Avatar?

Didn't you know Sideshowbob IS the person in his avatar ... or at least I hope so or my world will collapse.

 

[Dev]

And would you have offered this service to the person on your Avatar?

Isn't that sideshowbob's photograph?

 

[sideshowbob]

Don't f**k with Sun Ra. He's one of the smartest people who ever lived. I have no idea what he thought about cables mind you. I'd much rather talk about him than about bits of wire, it would be great if all cable threads were turned into Sun Ra threads.

So, recommendation number 1, get hold of this:

http://www.espdisk.com/esp4005.html

-- Ian

Edit: why does this board have that stupid naughty word censorship turned on? We're all adults, surely.

 

[michaelab]

It's offensive to suggest someone is deluded. I don't think it's offensive to suggest that science may not hold all the answers, merely controversial.

It's offensive to suggest someone is deaf. I don't think it's offensive to suggest that there's no real evidence that cable differences are audible, merely controversial.

 

[Dev]

We're all adults, surely.

In which we should have a wider vocabulary.

Ian, we know we have under 16s on this forum (and yes, they probably swear more than we do but we should maintain a degree of decorum).

 

[sideshowbob]

I learn all my favourite new swear words from my nephews, and they're mostly under 13. I reckon swearing is great, it should be encouraged.

Knob arse bumholes.

-- Ian

 

[3DSonics]

Hi,

Already you're trying to make sceptics out to be the bad guys.

If "not letting others be in peace because you disagree with them" (which is what the "sceptics" [whose scepticism would amuse Hume greatly] are doing, not just in audio and WRT cables) makes someone a "bad guy", than that's what they are.

Note, a true sceptic, one who may say "I don't know, if you want to convince show me evidence" is fine with me.

The average "cable sceptic's" position seems more to be summed up best: "Cables MUST not make a difference because I say so and I am going to make you shut up about cables, if it is the last thing I do!". They are also notablke for very rarely actually admitting to having done any serious experim ents on the subject themselves, they tend to be fond of citing self proclaimed authorities, which often are all but authorities in ANY field.

This BTW makes them not sceptical at all, but militant evangelistic believers and their approach is due to the need to protect a religeous dogma against challenge, no matter what the cost.

And that is nthe problem. No matter where they turn up, militant evangelic believers always cause problems and altercations.

Ciao T

 

[3DSonics]

Hi,

Don't f**k with Sun Ra.

Nothing be further from me. But he sure was far out, just as George Clinton. Not in a bad way BTW, on the co ntrary.

Ciao T

 

[Uncle Ants]

If "not letting others be in peace because you disagree with them" (which is what the "sceptics" [whose scepticism would amuse Hume greatly] are doing, not just in audio and WRT cables) makes someone a "bad guy", than that's what they are.

To be honest T, the results of the poll might suggest three quarters of those who have voted consider both the "sceptics" and the "believers" to be bad guys both for banging on and on and on about a subject which has become just too dull for words.

Trains are considerably more interesting, as is Sun Ra ... tell me more sideshow

 

[penance]

IMO there is offensive remarks from both sides, we have people who make stupid ditty's about cables, we have people telling us we are deluded, people telling non-believers they are deaf, non-believers who were believers seem to act like religeous zelot's (like ex-smokers).
It is tedious, i am sure on both sides.
What i find really annoying is when a poster asks advice about cables and get jumped on for asking, or someone who is happy and proud about their new cable being told what a waste it was. That is offensive.

This is why i wont be here much more, some new pastures allow people to have an opinion without being laughed at and gagged!

 

[sideshowbob]

Trains are considerably more interesting, as is Sun Ra ... tell me more sideshow

What can I say? Born on Saturn, one of the great arrangers and band leaders of modern music. Led the Arkestra for several decades, made (literally) hundreds of LPs, and returned to Saturn in 1993. Lots of info here:

http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~moudry/index.htm

-- Ian

 

[MO!]

laughed at and gagged!

I thought you were into that kinda thing you kinky li'l minx! :SWMBO: :spank: :ffrc: :NADowner: