Turntables...

brizonbiovizier said:
Tenson - perhaps I can come along and listen to a meg next time you get an opprtunity? Do they do their own electronics?
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I'm not sure if they do their own electronics as in source and so on but they do the amps that go in the back. They are said to be the weakness of the RL-901K, but they still sounded very good. Amazingly revealing.

I would suggest you simply call up Nick at KMR (google KMR Audio) and ask to home demo the MEG RL901K. They are extremely nice. They did not bat and eyelid when T and I spend most of an afternoon there and didn't buy a damn thing yet listened to loud music!

I would be grateful for another chance to hear them though if you do demo them. I don't think there is really any point in shop demos to be honest. It can give you an idea of what something can do, but if you want to tell if it is going to replace what you have, you need to hear it in the same place and in the same system.

I'm not saying they sounded 'good' at KMR, but they sounded the best of what we heard there and there was a lot of detail and quite good imaging.

I know my PMC and Bryston rig doesn't sound anything like what you lot are describing... funny. :(

What exactly is it valve amps are linear to?
 
BBV,

I don't feel the need to brag endlessly about how utterly great my system is, I prefer to listen to it. I am sure you would be totally unfamiliar with the majority of it's constituent parts anyway.

Well SM I have heard them sound authentic
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Were you pi$$ed at the time? Perhaps New years Eve?
 
Stereo Mic said:
I have never heard a single PMC Bryston combo sound authentic, and if it were accurate it would sound authentic.
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IME I'd agree with Mike in both respects. Whilst I ackowledge that the combo at the higher end (of their ranges) is a decent proposition for power and whump, which are things I like to have in a system, regards presence, naturalness and the "suspension of belief" factors? No way.

I'd never in a million years consider forking out for a Kondo setup and I'm not remotely suggesting an issue of value for money but there do set themselves apart in these areas In my limited experience.
 
brizonbiovizier said:
....mask some of the vices of the sme.
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Blimey. "some of the vices"? There are a lot of vices? It's just not what I've read about the SME deck, over the years. Reviewers are unanimous that it is an exceptionally neutral device, and seem pretty hard-pressed to say anything bad about it. Apart from one person - you.

I watched an excellent programme tonight about the problems associated with religions around the World. You remind me of the Fundamentalists who see the World and its questions in black-and-white.
 
Tenson - what is your actual setup at the moment? Sure I would love to dem the megs v active mb2. That will tell me all I need to know. What kind of deals will kmr strike? Which meg model is the top one? You are right - its just valve hyperbole - pmc and bryston is utterly realistic.

SM - nonsense you are as bad as I am. I didnt even go on about the BLG until you and Bub pushed me into doing so. I recommended the yorke - which I dont even own.

Greg - not to me they didnt. They definately added something significant to the sound and thats what people appear to like. I liked it too. But it wasnt on the record.

Bub - I am not the only one. What you mean to say is that you have never read any reviews that dont like the sme. I suggest you buy the sme and some valves and horns to go with it. Without listening first :P I saw that programme too - bizarrely I imagined you reading reviews much like that convert to islam read the quoran.
 
Tenson said:
What exactly is it valve amps are linear to?
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Tenson,


Transistor amplifiers are almost always class AB push pull, because for a given power, Class AB allows cheaper amplifiers, and push pull topology tends to cancel even order harmonic distortion products. The resulting distortion is therefore dominated by odd order harmonics, which to human sensibilities sound "harsh" etc. Transistor amplifiers typically also have extremely high gain, but poor open loop linearity, and rely on large amounts of negative feedback (NFB). Some consider that NFB does not sound "natural" or "musical", due to errors in the way it reacts to transients. These errors also reveal themselves in very complex distortion spectra, that humans find "discordant".
In contrast, triode valves typically have only modest gain, and are extremely linear. This makes it possible to design very simple valve circuits that rely on this inherent open loop linearity and have little, or indeed no, NFB, and thus have very simple distortion spectra.
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The Devil said:
I watched an excellent programme tonight about the problems associated with religions around the World.
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I though the Atheist Oxford Profession did a very poor and exceptionally patronising job of trying to present the philosophy of atheism. The old Bertrand Russell teapot argument just took the p*ss.

The fact he referred to faith in terms of issues of evidence showed his remarkably poor (apparent) grasp of logic.
 
brizonbiovizier said:
What you mean to say is that you have never read any reviews that dont like the sme.
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No, all the reviews I've read basically said "buy one now".

I suggest you buy the sme and some valves and horns to go with it.
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Why? It's a source device, and should work very well indeed with the rest of my gear.

Your experience of the SME (and most of the other hi-fi which you write about) is limited to shop auditions, yet you write about it as if you are an expert. You aren't.
 
greg said:
I though the Atheist Oxford Profession did a very poor and exceptionally patronising job of trying to present the philosophy of atheism. The old Bertrand Russell teapot argument just took the p*ss.

The fact he referred to faith in terms of issues of evidence showed his remarkably poor (apparent) grasp of logic.
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I thought he did very well, and was remarkably tolerant towards the obnoxious people who he met. Particularly that smug Colorado Pastor.
 
The Devil said:
I thought he did very well, and was remarkably tolerant towards the obnoxious people who he met. Particularly that smug Colorado Pastor.
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He was certainly way more tolerant than almost any of the "religious" folk. Nice guy, but he seemed incapable of forming any real argument of any kind.
 
So valve amps have a naturally more linear output than transistor amps. Transistor amps can use negative feedback to cancel this but it doesn't work so well on transients and has far lower but odd order harmonic distortion. Valve amps have less power and don't need NFB but have more distortion, all be it even harmonic.

Sounds like they are both a compromise to me.

I'm afraid my experience (and thats all it is, I don't for a minute want to tell you what to think) was that valve amps have too much distortion, even if it is 'pleasant'.

BBV, my current setup is a Cambridge Audio DiscMagic transport, Behringer DEQ2496 as room correction and DAC, Django passive pre, PMC AML1's. A lot of very good room treatment.

The Amps in the PMC's are the same circuitry as a 3B-ST for woofers and a 2B-ST for tweeters. Active crossover is the same as a 10B but obviously without all the other options to adjust.

DAC is next and then a Sub (maybe) and then a transport if I find it makes a difference.

I'm not sure what deals KMR will do but they are a high end pro audio dealer so I expect they will do the same as most Hi-Fi shops will. I don't see a home demo being a problem. Especially as you are close.

P.S. Its amazing how everybody goes to bed as soon as it hits midnight! Its like Cinderella!
 
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Tenson said:
P.S. Its amazing how everybody goes to bed as soon as it hits midnight! Its like Cinderella!
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Especially considering most of them are actually forum bot software. Ah - I guess the AI is smart enough ot make them appear like they go to bed.

For what it's worth I ought to be in bed (up at 0600) but I have work to do.
 
Lol! That explains the repetitive comments! Reminds me of that old DOS psychiatrist program. Why is it that [Screw you] makes you feel this way? Could you be blaming your own problems on [Screw you]? I am sorry you can not hear the difference that the cable [Screw you] makes to the sound...
 
Tenson said:
I'm afraid my experience (and thats all it is, I don't for a minute want to tell you what to think) was that valve amps have too much distortion, even if it is 'pleasant'.
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You don't have much experience then do you young man.



Valve amps have less power and don't need NFB but have more distortion, all be it even harmonic.
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SET distortion rises dramatically with load and output. Other types of valve amplification do not exceed 1% THD at full power, and less than 0.1% at typical levels. Used with efficicent loudspeakers where only about 1 watt is required, you get the best of both worlds. Sadly with SS, it's f***ed already.
 
Yes bub - the reviews said to buy one and you did. With no other evidence. Reviews are a 1000 times less reliable than a shop dem. You know what Dawkins had to say about blind faith. You are outsourcing the decision as well as the listening it seems. You arent an expert on the sme either - in fact you have no experience of the deck at all.

Faith can be referred to in terms of evidence - that was his whole point. The teapot argument reveals the whole thing as the absurdity it is. I found his arguments cogent and compelling. As well as hilarious!

Certainly bubs hifi practices could be explained by a bot scanning reviews and linked to a payment account ;).
 
I guess the alternative is to become the bain of dealers' lives, talked about and ridiculed years after the event, eh Nick?
 
I beleive that is spelt "bane". I very much doubt any of them remember me SM. If they find my practices amusing then good for them.
 

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