Utter idiot's guide to buying a budget turntable

Sorry, when I said RB200, I meant R200. As Dick says, rebadged Acos arms I believe.

-- Ian

 

Thats an RB200 I believe (a fairly generic s shaped japanese built thing, Rega badged). Folklore has it that the Planar 2 and Planar 3 only really acquired giant killer status when they started installing their own RB250 and RB300 arms. I know that many have the opinion - not just Origin Live - that even unmodded the RB250, though cheaper, is the better arm. And its interesting to note that the current RB derived favourite, the Michell Technoarm, is a modded 250, not a 300. Bearings on both sides and no spring loaded tracking force adjustment the reason why.

If its all sounding a bit woolly in the middle, Its hard to say where exactly the problem is, but given the unknown provenance and history of the cart, that's the likely culprit followed by the arm, which although unlikely to be "bad" as such is also unlikely to be doing any favours.

Don't think a knackered record can knacker a stylus except in extreme circumstances - My Dad at my Mum's insistance once dragged her original '57 copy of Elvis' Rock and Roll No.2 out of the attic, turns out it had such a big graunch on it that it ripped the stylus tip clean out of the cantilever to much gnashing of teeth and cursing of spouses and rock n roll icons - so that's one example of a bad record doing a stylus in.

Besides stylus wear carts can also just get old and the cantilever suspension can perish. Don't think you can go too far wrong with one of the cheaper Goldring 10xx range or perhaps the Ortofon 5xx range.

One of the less attractive features of vinyl is the variability in pressing quality. Its simply not as consistent as CD. mid 80s reissues are a particular culprit for poor pressings. Better decks and better carts generally do better re clicks, pops, rumbles and other distractions and I've found that line contact styli can sometimes eliminate the distortion in worn records that spherical or eliptical styli can't.

 

I too stand corrected (thanks Dick). Turns out the Acos ref is also correct see here:

http://www.tonearm.co.uk/rega-arms-hfw.htm

I quote:

"Until August 1983, the best budget tonearm in the world was the Rega R200. An S-shaped, Japanese sourced variant of the mid-price Lustre GST-1, it gave excellent results for its £46 selling price. But then along came an arm with such an amazing price/performance ratio, that the poor S-shaped Rega was never bothered with again. The RB300 had arrived. Radically different to almost anything before, it practically rewrote the book." ....

I didn't realise it was that well regarded. Makes the cart even more likely a culprit perhaps?

 

Thanks guys, more food for thought.

My next question is what do I need to know to take care of the records? The Rega manual said not to worry too much about cleaning them - saying any dust will get shovelled out of the way by the stylus and any build-up on the stylus can just be blown away easy-peasy. I like the sound of that strategy but how realistic is it..? I know my dealer regularly uses a record cleaning brush thing - should I get myself one of those?

Also, what about static..? I'm sure I've read about all sorts of anti-static jiggery-pokery for records (and decks?) How grounded (if you'll excuse the pun...) is this sort of thing in reality and how much is audiophool paranoia? And how about storage? You can get anti-static sleeves and things can't you? Worth it?

I noticed sometimes when I'd take a record off the deck (after playing it through) I would get little static discharges when I'd touch it (between my finger and the vinyl). Not arcing or anything - just little crackles (like when you take off a woolly jumper on a dry winter day). Do I need to be concerned? If so, what can I do?

Cheers.

Dunc

 

I also had the Rega planer 3 version of that deck(s arm), yours looks a very early one,one of the first probably,as I think the later ones didn't come with a surround plinth.

The arm is ok,nothing special and what you descride in sound is what I used to hear with mine,with that arm,very vague stereo image,bit wooly,some records sounding good others awful,I wouldn't put a Dynavector on it to be honest,not even a Shure V15,but something like a lower Goldring,or at a little under a ton,a Shure M97Xe is pretty good for a MM.

I have also found records that I though were dull,at the end of thier life or needed a good clean when playing on a Rega 2/3 sounded alive and vigorious on a Modded P25/Dynavector/good phono stage,I'm amazed at what a well up set P25 can do.

To be honest I only paid £80 for the Rega 3 R200,about 8 years ago S/H,what you need to spend on it,no RB arm,I think it would be a better buy the P3.

 

Well,

Given that youve only had it a few weeks, why not see what the dealer would charge to keep the deck the same and put an RB250 and a better cart on?

If the P3 you mentioned has an RB250 and a better cartridge and is only 50 quid or so more, that would be worth going back for IMHO.

Im sure the dealer will give you a better swap price (on fear of losing the original sale) than you will get by buying and selling stuff on e-bay.

Sack the cart and arm I'd say

 

The P3 will have a RB 300,maybe keep the deck a put a new RB700 on it,that would be fun!!!

 

Resist those immediate upgrade urges, you've only had it a day! Stick a new cart on it (after all, you can always move the cart onto a better deck if you do decide to upgrade), play loads of records, buy loads of records, when/if you find it's an addiction buy a better deck and be prepared for significant improvements all round.

The stylus gauge went in the post to you about an hour ago, so hopefully it should be with you by Saturday.

-- Ian

 

support

Hi.

The imaging and detail problems you describe could be partly down to the "cheapy Rack" try putting a large stone slab under the TT. If the deck moves so does the record, vibrations can easily get back to the cart. A heavy support followed by a vibration control support would be best. It's a cheap area to start looking at.

If the Rack is on a wooden floor a wall mounted support may be the answer.

Enjoy your new music.

Chris

 

Just noticed in your pictures...

you are running the TT with the cover lifted, not removed. I'm not familiar with the particular deck but many manufacturers recommend complete removal of the cover to avoid feedback reducing quality.

Chris

 

Might make a diff. My previous deck - a Project 2 (not to be confused with the Debut II), had a lid which resonated like a bell. Removed it entirely and the difference was dramatic.

Still think a new cart is the first step though. You can take the cart with you should you want to upgrade.

 

That looks like a really nice condition Planar 2 you've got there. Now for some slightly controversial advice: don't be in a huge rush to 'upgrade' the arm to a RB250 or 300, yes they are unquestionably better arms, but there is a certain synergy that in my (and many other people's) opinion was lost to a degree with the later combos. The R200 is a warmer, albeit less detailed sounding arm than the RB range, and coupled with a sympathetic cartridge gives a superbly balanced sound on the Planar 2 you have (I really like Planar 2s of that era). IMHO the RB range of arms really belong on far more upmarket decks. I'd keep the Planar 2 totally stock and improve it in other ways…

The most important thing you can do for your new Planar 2 is to put it on a decent support. The Rega wall shelf is unbeatable for the cash and will improve the deck beyond belief from what it is currently on – Regas, like most decks, truly hate sitting on the top of heavy mass loaded racks. I can't emphasise this enough – a huge, huge difference to be had for about 50 quid!

After you have a wall shelf consider a better cart, I'm struggling to recommend anything as all the ones I loved in the R200 on a Planar 2 or 3 are no longer with us (Grace F9E, Rega R100, Fidelity Research FR101 etc). I'd be tempted to try the cheapest Denon high output MC, the DL110 which should fine compliance wise for the arm and has a very good reputation.

Tony.

 

Yes, my Project 2 is totally without lid too, and it sounds much better.
It's a real improvement from a Debut II, the Proj2. I must say I agree with Sideshowbob. Get a reasonable cartridge and enjoy the sound for a while.

You want to enjoy what you have before you start spending more on it. That's half the fun! When you are no longer enjoying it, do something about it. The bug will creep in anyway, no matter what, so savour this and then upgrade again.

Jack

 

A bit of static is quite normal, but if worried an antistatic gun will do the trick. A carbon fibre brush is about all I use most of the time - it true that the stylus will dig out the dust, but you will find that on a really dusty record the crud could build up enough that by the time you get toward the end its starting to sound rotten.

 

Thanks, can anyone recommend me a cheap-but-decent record cleaning brush?

Well I've been having some more fun listening sessions, and it's sounding a lot better for the most part. I removed the lid and repositioned the deck on the stand (I noticed one of the feet was perched rather precariously, dangling mostly over the edge of the stand! Oops!) I also noticed that the stand wasn't level (according to my el-cheapo spirit level) so I did the best I could and propped it up with some folded up cardboard under the feet to get it level. So it's level now, but not very stable.. I wonder which is more important - stability or level support...?

I also measured the tracking force properly with the gauge Ian sent me - thanks again! I'm still using the old cartridge though, so I've got it at exactly 1.8g without knowing whether this is recommended... oh well...

Ah well, in any case, despite all the compromises and uncertainties it still sounds great - the muddiness in the midrange seems to have cleared up and the soundstaging is deeper and more holographic (though naturally still not a patch on the Meridian). Bob Dylan's Bringing It All Back Home sounded particularly stunning despite a lot of pops and crackles.

Anyway, there's now only one aspect of the sound that I don't like. It seems the treble, particularly sibilants, get a bit 'hot and bothered', and a bit rough and scratchy in louder bits, most noticeably in male voices and Bob's harmonica. It's not too annoying - it's only noticeable in certain parts of certain music, but it sounds similar enough each time to suggest it's not just particular records' poor condition. My bets are on the cartridge.

So I think I'll go for a new cartridge. I've not spoken to the dealer yet, but I think I'll just go for something brand new. I like the idea of knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's pristine (and also knowing for sure what its recommended tracking weight is!)

So now I need to decide what cartridge to get. No mean feat given the impracticalities of hearing them beforehand... So it'll probably just come down to price, expert opinion (that's you lot! ), and a bit of a leap of faith. Basically I've spent so much already that I really want to spend as little as I can get away with.

So far top of my list is the Goldring 1006, unless someone here can convince me it would be worth the extra outlay for the better ones. Still considering the other ones mentioned so any more info/opinion on alternatives would be appreciated.

Oh, and how hard is it to install your own cartridge? It looks pretty fiddly and I'd hate to ruin my brand new cartridge... Would it be worth letting the dealer do it, or should I be able to manage myself? (I've ordered the HFN test/setup LP so I should be okay for alignment and things.)

Once again, thanks for all the help and advice!

Dunc

 

Dunc,

There is a chap in Germany selling new Ortofohn cartridges for about 1/2 price.
The Emporium charges about 60% of retail for new Ortofohns too.

My reccomendation given the big saving, would be for an MC15 super II.

I had one of these, and its not far off the 500 quid Kontrapunkt I use now.

They are about 120 new, but I bet the german chap or the Emporium would be nearer to 70-80 quid.

Sideshowbob knows the german chap, I cant remember his website. Emporium address/phone number is on their website.

There are loads of other good cartridges, but not 1/2 price!

Try www.needle-doctor.com (I think thats right) for loads of information and reviews on cartridges.

 

www.phonophono.de is a good cheap place to get carts.

I've never heard a Denon DL110 but people who have seem to think they're great, and I suspect if I was looking to buy a cheap high output MC I would be tempted to give it a try. The Ortofon Chris mentions would be a good choice too. For an MM ~£100 the Goldrings are my first choice.

Basically, you have loads of options in the ~£100 region for MMs or high-output MCs if you don't buy in the UK. But it's so down to personal taste it's hard to recommend one in particular.

Record cleaning brushes are an easier recommendation - Goldring's anti-static carbon fibre brush is just the job.

Edit: fitting a cartridge isn't difficult if you have the appropriate jeweller's screwdriver or small allen key, depending on bolt type, and an alignment protractor (if you don't have one, a basic cardboard one doesn't cost much, an email to Rega should get you one). Rega arms offer minimal adjustment facilities, which is, on the whole, not a bad thing. Be aware that they have no VTA adjustment at all, so if the cart you choose is tall, so that the arm isn't reasonably parallel to the record with the stylus on the record surface, you'll need to use a shim to lift the arm slightly at the counterweight end. Having said that, Rega's view is that VTA is basically unimportant, and I certainly agree with them that you can get too obsessed with the finest points of set up.

-- Ian

 

Both sideshowbob and Bottleneck are recommending Moving Coils BUT possible word of warning. I don't know - maybe some one here can tell me - but just how well is that R200 arm going to cope with an MC? I would imagine given its vintage, that its likely pretty low mass and better suited for a highish compliance MM - might not do so good with low compliance MC carts. If it was an RB250 or 300 it'd be a different story, but it isn't.

Dunc. Fitting a cartrdige isn't too hard. There's plenty of help to be had online. Here's an example which covers it pretty well (and includes a usable alignment protractor to print out and use).

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/featureshtml/cartridgetweaks.html

One thing that'll make it easier for you by the looks of it is that the arm you have has a detachable headshell, which ought to make a fiddly job easier. Three words of advice

1) Take your time
2) MM carts usually have removable styli MCs don't. If you go for an MM cart like the Goldring 1006 removing the stylus before fitting the cart remove a lot of the danger and stress.
3) Don't do it drunk or stoned (a mistake I made ... once )

You really can't go too wrong with the Goldring - and it has the bonus that you can upgrade it by repalcing the stylus - right up to 1042 level (same is true of the Ortofon 5x0 range of carts).

I could be wrong about MC carts and that arm, but if I'm right the results may be less than pleasing. There is some discussion of the issue of cartridge compliance (basically the rigidity of the cantilever - the lower the compliance the more rigid) and tonearm mass here http://www.xs4all.nl/~rabruil/ttcartridge.html) - its to do with keeping tonearm/cart resonances out of the audible range. Generally speaking low mass arms need high compliance carts and vice versa. MC carts are usually a lot less compliant than MMs. That old arm of yours is almost certainly of mid 70s vintage and likely a low mass design. In the 70s received wisdom suggested low mass/high compliance was the way to go - and so higher compliance MM carts may suit it best. The RB250/300 is sort of mid mass and so will pretty much work with either. Does anyone know what the effective mass of the old R200 (or the Acos Lustre) is or am I in fact barking at the moon?

PS. Those "hot and bothered" sibilants. If its there on all records throughout the record its almost certainly a duff cart. If its there on all records but gets worse on inner tracks then its more likely misalignment (which if not sorted could damage the records). If its there on some records but not others then its more likely the records themselves that are damaged or worn. Really though as I think you've already concluded - if you don't know the provenance of the cart its safer to bin it.

 

I dont know about the compliance thing. A call to Rega should answer that one. Worth checking out thats true.

If Rega say the MC15 is a no-go, theres always the MM Ortofohns to look at, which should be available 1/2 price or thereabouts from the same dealers.

NB
Dont be put off by the fact that your phono stage may not work with MC. The MC15 super II is a high output moving coil, and can be used in a MM phono stage.

NNB
If anyone knows of people who discount other brands, let us know!

Chris

 

Chris,

Certainly worth checking. I did a search over on the Vinyl Asylum and whilst there was nothing specifically about the effective mass of the R200 - its also apparently a close cousin of the old Linn LVV. The view from past posts seemed to be that it was best suited to MMs. However one of the inmates did report it working well with a Dynavector DV10X4 high output MC (though I dunno about that cart - maybe higher compliance than your average MC I dunno)

Dunc,

If you want to try out one of the Ortofon MMs (at least to see if it sorts the sibilance problem), I've got a spare Ortofon 510 II (about equivalent to the Goldring 1006 in the Ortofon MM range) you can borrow. Its only got a couple of hours on it so good as new. I'd want it back once you'd bought a new one mind - I have plans for it. PM me if you are interested.