Utter idiot's guide to buying a budget turntable

Dunc. You have PM.

 

Hi Dunc,

You want to empty your mailbox. I just tried to PM you but it bounced cos yours is full

The cart is in the post, with luck and the GPO's blessing it should be with you tomorrow morning. I couldn't find any spare cartridge bolts, but the ones you are currently using should do fine.

I also packed the spare 530 II stylus, so you can try them both, but getting the stylus in and out can be a bit stiff and maybe a bit disconcerting - if it worries, you then don't try it. There is a difference between the two, but not what you would call night and day. For your purposes the 510 should do just fine.

If you don't remove the stylus for install, the stylus guard should keep you out of trouble, but remember to push it (right back) up before you play

Good luck,

Tony

 

Hi Tony, sorry about the full inbox - just emptied it, won't happen again!

As for the cart, thanks again mate. You know I said I'm an impulse buyer? Well, I've been at it again... I've been noticing the roughness at the high freqs more and more and started getting worried for my new discs, so I went out today and bought an Ortofon 520 Mk II. Mostly because it was one of the few in my price range that anyone had in stock...

So basically I'll try it out (got it sitting right here, ready to go ) and if I like it I won't even bother risking breaking your 510/30, and I'll just send 'em right back. If I'm curious though I might give either one a try...

Anyway, wish me luck getting it installed........

Dunc

 

Impulse is a great thing, much underrated.

Have you got an alignment protractor?

-- Ian

 

Yeah, it's just the free one on EnjoyTheMusic.com, printed from PDF. Is there a knack to using it? It's hard to lign up the cart with the guidelines cos the headshell gets in the way... I think I got it about right but it's hard to know.

Anyway, got it all setup and playing Dylan just now. The treble issues have definitely cleared up, but the balance is very different to the Adcom - rather brighter and thinner, and possibly less punchy (will have to try some more music before i know for sure). Do these things take time to run in? The guy at the shop said the Ortofons are on the warm/full-sounding side. Definitely not warm or full atm! I'll let it play a bit, and try some other music before commenting further.

Just hope I got the setup right...

Dunc

 

IME cartridges are one of the few audio components that burn in. It should fill out over the next week or so, fear not. New carts I've had always seem a bit bright at first.

-- Ian

 

make sure the cart is level to the record when playing, and that the arm is level to the record when playing too.

If the needle is hitting the record and everything isnt level then you get more bass/more treble.

Sorry if you knew that

 

Impetuous devil Cartridges do require a bit of burn in and that could be the problem here. See how it sounds after a week or two of serious playing.

Alternatively as bottleneck points out it could be an issue of what's called Vertical Tracking Angle (VTA). Basically its about the angle of the stylus front to back as it ploughs througn the groove.

Broadly speaking the arm should be parallel with the record, when the arm is lowered. Change the cart and sometimes this can change. Its adjusted by slightly raising or lowering the arm at the bearing end - how this is done varies from arm to arm and with some arms isn't adjustable - the Rega RB250 and RB300 for example. I don't know re the R200 - its effectively an Acos arm, badged as Rega so I guess its possible. In theory get it too high and you get thin and reedy, get it to low and its too bassy and overblown - get in the window in between and it should be right. Where arms aren't adjustable people have been known to use different thickness platter mats.

Its something that some vinylistas get unreasonably obsessed with - changing VTA with different thickness records for example. IMHO its hardly worth it - If I worried about it that much it would take playing records from being great fun (with a bit of occasional fiddliness), to being a pain in the butt. Frankly unless its way out or the cart is particularly sensitive, its not worth losing sleep over.

I shouldn't worry about it - some carts are more sensitive to VTA (ie have a narrower window between too high and too low) than others and I've played around with VTA on the Ortofon 530 II and it didn't seem very sensitive to VTA at all. So I'm putting the money on burn in.

 

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/vta_e.html

-- Ian

 

Nice one Ian. What a thought provoking article. That'd explain why I didn't think the Ortofon (the only one I've really messed with VTA with) wasn't particularly sensitive to VTA then

Seriously, when I first got my current deck the RB250 sloped downward like a ski slope - the lack of VTA on the RB250 meant that the only way to get the arm roughly horizontal was to put a chunky big 4mm spacer between the top of the bearing sleeve and the plinth (basically raining the platter) - I though I oticed some minor improvement - but it was minor enough that it could have been imagination also.

VTA/SRA eh? Could this be the new "Cable War" in the making? Roy Gregory, our favourite journo gets a battering ... again ... haha :MILD:

 

Yes, it's an interesting article, certainly helped convince me that Rega are probably basically right to say that VTA is an adjustment that makes no meaningful difference.

Here's Roy Gandy on the same subject:

http://www.n.mackie.btinternet.co.uk/documents/regaonvta.html

My favourite line from that article is, "VTA adjustment is actually a neurosis NOT a technical adjustment."

-- Ian

 

Thanks for the article Ian - very informative (and it's always fun when I get to laugh at Roy Gregory and his "flowery prose" ilk ). It is worth noting that the Ortofon cart is a lot smaller and shorter (and lighter) than the Adcom, so the arm has to point down towards the record, rather than being level, but it's only to a very slight angle (to my eyes). So I suppose it could have something to do with VTA (or should that be SRA..? ) but after the TNT article I'm happy to dimiss the likelihood until it's had a good chance to run in. I can definitely see why break-in might be important with a cart - it's sort of like a speaker in reverse isn't it?

Anyway, I've noticed this cart picks up a LOT more dust than the Adcom. The Adcom would pick up the odd bit of fluff and need blowing off after 4 or 5 dirty records, but the Ortofon picks up a lot more - pretty much every record side apart from two records which must've been particularly clean caused a large, obvious ball of fluff to collect on the stylus and be blown or pulled off. I wonder why..?

Another matter - there seems to be a crackle at certain upper-mid/treble frequencies when they get loud. Similar to the "hot & bothered" sound on the Adcom, but with quite a different sound and not appearing at the same points (so I'm assuming it's a different issue). This time it's more of a crackle, almost like static. And it seems to happen to a greater or lesser extent on different records. I'm thinking it's maybe caused by the dust build-up because it seems to clear up after I've blown a ball of fluff off the stylus..... Does this seem likely, or even possible? I hate to think I've knackered the cart already! (Certainly can't afford to get a new one anytime soon.....) In any case I eagerly await my record-cleaning brush.........

Dunc

 

Don't panic - the Ortofon likely has a different stylus profile from the adcom - digging deeper and hoiking out the dust from what sound to me like some pretty grubby records A big ball of fluff on the styus will be audible. Once you've played a record and had the ball of fluff problem - play it again. is the problem gone?

 

Got my HFN test record today, as well as Tony's Ortofon cart - will have to have a play and report back. (Might get a bit distracted by the US elections tho... me being half American 'n all.)

Dunc

 

That's not my experience when trying to play an original BN pressing on a TT equipped with a Dynavector DV17...

 

That's because you are suffering from a neurosis

 

Got my order of 5 tasty tasty jazz discs from Zweitausendeins this morning - my first pristine vinyl at last! - and holy momma does it sound good! And no crackling, so I'm assuming that's a dust thing after all (thank god!) Listening to Ella at Montreaux '77 now, and it sounds sooooo good..... could just melt......... Can't wait till tonight when I'll put the all through their paces in a proper listening sesh! Me happy!

Dunc

 

No, I just have a very short cantilever.
Fortunately, I also have a record player with proper VTA

 

No wonder you're neurotic

 

Good news Dunc. So is the sound filling out at all yet?

About those dusty records - sounds like you are going to have to clean them. You could spend lots of money (more than you did on the deck) on
a record cleaning machine,

or a lot less (£45 ish ?? ) on something like a knosti antistat, it a sort of record bath with brushes - works quite wel from what I can gather

or do what I do and use either some record cleaning fluid - all sorts available including various DIY recipes or if that isn't available a very, very, very mild solution of soapless detergent and distilled water (I use ecover) and give them a proper clean with a carbon fibre brush, rinse with more distilled water and dry with a nice soft pair of old pants Some will say no to the mild detergent option, but I've only ever done this on records which sounded fit for the bin and its never resulted in anything but a marked improvement. In some cases its resulted in the unlistenable coming up pristine. A lot of crackle and pop is quite simply the dirt of ages. Of course if you get serious about your cleaning regime, you'll also need to invest in some new inner sleeves - otherwise you'll just be putting clean records back in dusty covers.