What do you believe in ?

That depends on the particular therapy.

With 'hands-on healing' in particular, I have been involved in experiments where the 'healer' and 'healee' have been connected to instruments measuring their skin resistance and brain waves (real-time dual hemisphere measurements of all activity from 1.5Hz to 40Hz, using the 'Mind Mirror'). Brainwave and skin resistance changes occurred in the 'healee' in line with the state of the 'healer'. Particularly in the case of the brainwave measurements, the 'healee' was unable to achieve the states 'induced' before the activities of the 'healer'.

Such experiments were not double-blind and scientifically repeatable in a statistically significant way but that was not our intention which was to understand more about the process. But bear in mind that the 'healee' generally had no experience of the instrumentation and was extremely unlikely to hit upon the healer's patterns by placebo alone. I am convinced but why should you be?

...yet

 

Couldn't agree more. Although I think the percentage in women would swing well into the irrational camp. The amount of women I hear these days saying 'it was meant to be' or 'everything happens for a reason' is astounding. I often counter by asking if they think the Nazi Holocaust happened for any particular reason

 

Steve,

Interesting, but for comparison I'd like to see the same things measured in a person who's healthy and a "fake healer" -- in other words, a person who's just going through the motions. And to make it amenable to statistical testing we'd have to do the experiment with several sets of healers and healees.

I'd also want to know if the measured changes correlate with faster or more complete recovery in the healee. For all we know, perhaps people just get a bit sweaty when they're touched and all that's being measured is a reduction in surface skin resistance because of sweatiness.

The issue for me is that some of the things reported here clearly are extraordinary, and I agree completely with Sagan that extraordinary claims need to be substantiated by extraordinary evidence.

Joe

 

Yes, perhaps. But as I said, our intention was not to achieve scientific credibility but to understand more about the process. When I do healing it's more useful for me to use the meters as feedback to improve my effectiveness or to let me know that I'm too tired or ill to be doing the work at that time.

That would also be interesting. Perhaps one could do a test with the healing of induced (but not harmful) wounds.

Generally, skin resistance would increase as the subject relaxed, although in some cases where the subject's nervous system was stuck in a 'fixed parasympathetic mode' (high skin resistance that generally doesn't change much, often seen in older people) healing would appear to induce a shift downwards, as their nervous systems appeared to 'wake up'..

Actually, the machines are not measuring surface skin resistance but something to do with the ionisation that takes place below the skin. This is easy to demonstrate as electrical resistance between two points on the same palm is more or less the same as resistance between two points on different palms. If the machines were measuring the resistance of the sweat this would not be the case. In fact surprisingly, sweat is coincident to this process, as it so happens that people generally sweat more when their nervous systems become aroused. I should also mention that the experiments were done with the hands over the head or body but generally not touching.

Not to me they don't. I'll make my judgements without obtaining the permission of the scientific community.

I think that many healers feel this way. If the scientific community have an interest in proving or disproving the efficacy of hands-on healing, let them do so. I'd be happy to help. They shouldn't expect much funding from the drug companies though.

 

Steve,

I doubt we're going to agree on this, but, for what it's worth my modus operandi is to keep an open mind but demand convincing evidence -- except when it comes to Belty claims. I think we can all agree that that's just plain nutz. ;-)

Joe

P.S. You might find this essay interesting.

 

Not so much interesting as obvious. He doubts the existence of dead spirits that can be contacted. So do I. He doubts the healing powers of crystals. So do I.

However, when he says "Control experiments are essential", I say "that depends". If someone slaps me around the face with a dry cod, it will probably hurt. I don't need control experiments to prove it.

To me, the value of healing has been demonstrated to be about as obvious as a slap around the face with a dry cod. Similarly, the effects of the Feldenkrais Method and, for that matter, some of the apparent miracles of Ki Aikido. There are always 'scientific' explanations for why things work. Just about everything is amenable to rational explanation, although not always to double-blind, controlled experimentation. However, I don't have to hang around waiting for the science to tell me what I already know.

 

Cod 1. The fat-filled scrotum of a castrated bovine animal.

The makings of a good ritualistic practice if ever there was one. After you.

 

No you first.

Actually, it has long been believed that slapping unruly school children with a dry cod vastly improves their concentration. Long term however, wet cod is believed to be better owing to the increased absorption of Omega 3. :MILD:

Still, as Sagan says, "Control experiments are essential", if not entirely legal in this instance.

 

Yep, if it's not the young earth creationists trying to sneak religion into science lessons it's the wet fish lobbyists. Oh dear.

 

How about this?

Think before you drink

(thanks tones)

 

H2Om - That website actually made me angry!

Is it a joke or for real?? I am honestly not sure.

 

Why?

 

No different from Coke selling tap water and charging and arm and a leg
...caveat emptor

 

Vibration Hydrationâ„¢
Absolute purity comes in Seven Fantastic Infusions:

NOW AVAILABLE:
• LOVE
• PERFECT HEALTH
• PROSPERITY
• GRATITUDE
• WILL POWER
• PEACE
• JOY

....thats why.

 

Its frickin water! At least coca cola withdrew their tap water - and they actually added minerals!

 

....then we have this gem.....

http://www.h2omwater.com/infusionprocess.html

Turn on your speakers for maximum effect.

 

Cmon you have to laugh at that. If someone is gullible enough to believe that they deserve to be parted with their hard earned.....

Coke only stopped production in the UK. In the US, many people actually buy Divani or whatever it was called.

I think drinks like Sunny Delight are equally bad, tricking kids whilst actually having very little actual orange juice in them

 

I'm hatching plans to distil my piss and sell as bottled woo-wee water on eBay.

 

True to my word and only 3 years later I have concluded my tests on Reiki and its effects for curing ills.

The conclusion is: FAIL.

It doesnt exist and anyone thinking it does is a loon.

 

Talking of water: www.dhmo.org

I used to use this with my students...