What do you believe in ?

It never ceases to amaze me that people can hold such naive views that don't even begin to stand up to the most basic scientific scrutiny and claim one anecdotal story constitutes proof!

 

Have you even attempted an open minded examination of any of the theories listed ?
or as I expect, are you totally reliant on the work of others for your simplistic arguments. Why bob are you so very rabid in your rejection of any of the ideas ?

It constituted sufficient proof for the sceptical 52 year old builder. What you seem unable to grasp; is whatever your thoughts on the subjects, articles from the internet, Documentaries exposing charlatans (of which there are many, as there are in all forms of Allopathic treatment also) If the recipient of the treatment feels better, has a reduction of symptoms and feels better able to cope with life, then the healing can be said to have worked. It does not require your approval to be proven.

If Allopathic medicine is superior, why the increased numbers of people suffering from; ME, IBS, Stress, High blood pressure, Migraine to name but few. Why do the drugs dished out not help ?

 

OK, I'm game, but I will choose Reiki (sp?) because a very good friend of mine is training in this treatment (sic) method. He is a veru good chef in his day job and says that he can make more money and help people after he is trained in Reiki.

Dont worry - I will post the results here +ve or -ve. Ill be eating humble pie or calling you a loon

 

Before I reply, define energy and what it means for it to be negative or positive.

Joe

 

Good energy would be fired from the phasers of a Star Fleet vessel.

Bad energy is the exhaust from a Klingon battle cruiser.

 

Gran,

OK, but what if the Star Fleet vessel was from the parallel goateed Spock universe?

Joe

 

What sort of beard is a parallel goatee ?

 

So a healer who claims to be able to cure serious illness is a bullshitter - whereas a healer who claims to be able to cure chronic shoulder pain is not? Why is this?

If in both cases the healer has a sincere belief in their healing abilities to do so - rather than knowingly setting out to effect a placebo response with sham theatrics.

 

In my view both are bullshitters. I would expect to come out of a session with a healer feeling more relaxed, more positive and stronger. Whether my body could use this to help recover from either shoulder pain or a more serious illness is something I cannot know - and nor can the healer.

Healing is 'healing', just that. It's not 'curing', although the two things are related.

 

Good answer. I don't doubt the possible usefulness of positive psychological conditioning as an aid to healing. I do think all the colourful witch-doctoring is utter guff.

So, the skill of the healer is to elicit a relaxed and positive frame of mind. Can this not be done without all the silliness? The shamanism and the rattling of ju-ju beads?

 

I think there are many healers who work without rattling beads. I think you also have to understand that many healers aren't necessarily scientists or even particularly rational.** They often believe themselves in the ju-ju.

Also, note that I didn't limit my view of healing to 'positive psychological conditioning'. As I said earlier, I believe that there's more happening here.

**Interestingly though, the president of the Association of Dowsers (or whatever they were called) was Arthur Bailey who was also the inventor of the modern transmission line method of bass loading.

 

Well, if we do agree placebo response (what I meant by 'psychological conditioning' of course) is a likely mechanism of healing, then that is some common ground. I have read there is evidence from clinical trials to support the physiological efficacy of placebo in treating patients with Parkinsons disease for instance.

It's the something more I'm sceptical of. The woo-woo (or ju-ju). I choose evidence-based medicine.

Provided healers only ever offer their services as complimentary to orthodox medicine, then I don't take issue. This is not always the case as far as I'm aware. Already on this thread there has been some anti-science rhetoric, not clever.

 

Provided healers only ever offer their services as complimentary to orthodox medicine, then I don’t take issue. This is not always the case as far as I’m aware. Already on this thread there has been some anti-science rhetoric, not clever.

hammer, nail, head.

 

Apparently, research into placebos has shown that surgery is the most powerful. This is where an operation is done, anaesthetic, incision, etc. but no real procedure takes place.

Interesting I thought.

'Suggestion' is an important aspect of all domains in life, including healing (in the broadest sense of the word) and teaching. Bearing in mind that our words have a suggestive effect whether we plan it or not, some study in this area is probably a useful thing for all of us.

As an example, I assist children's reading at a primary school each Thursday morning and I'm very aware of the potential power of my words and how careful I must be. Today when working with a little girl who was struggling a bit and told me that she hated reading, I found myself using an Ericksonian approach and asking her "If you found in a few week's time that you now loved reading, would you be surprised?"

I'm just saying, that's all. I remember contributing to the disappearance of someone's warts using an identical approach. When he came back to me in 2 weeks and told me his warts had gone I was far more surprised than he was.

Bob, if something happened in the next few weeks that led you to have a far more open-minded approach to complimentary medicine, would you be surprised?

 

Yes, sham surgery is interesting.

Warts are self-limiting. What makes you believe your intervention had anything at all to do with their disappearance?

You have already said a healer cannot know this, yet now appear certain of your own contribution to healing this poor unfortunate of his unsightly blemishes.

 

Dear oh dear, so keen for a fight.

Who said that I now appear 'certain' of my own contribution?

The fact that warts are susceptible to placebo disappearance and the fact that this particular disappearance coincided precisely with the time limits I suggested, coupled with the fact that the 'poor unfortunate' was himself convinced that I was responsible, make me suspect that my action contributed.

However, I used the word 'contributed' to imply that I could not be certain that I was in any way responsible and the disappearance could indeed have been purely coincidental.

 

I have never claimed that I affected a cure for his shoulder, rather as I have posted earlier, the healing session enabled him to heal himself.

All I do is to is to direct a form of energy in and around the recipient.

Don't start on again with the ''what is it and why can't it be measured.'' I don't know and to be honest I don't care.

I promise to try to write in a more succinct manner in future, to avoid the possibility of confusion.

 

The issue many people have is not the fact that complimentary treatments may/may not work - its the poor gullible punters paying the cash that believe modern medicine is hogwash. They need an alternative because medicine has somehow failed them (more likely its our poor NHS that has failed them).

Some people that believe in mumbo jumbo practice dont have any faith in modern medicine - Oh the irony of it, as you need faith in mumbo jumbo to help it work.

 

All you need is faith! And I'm an atheist

 

&V
As I would never avail myself of the services of such charlatans I then the answer is no.