The Devil
IHTFP
What possible motive could we all have to make this stuff up?
Why you can never 'win' with Mana
- Thread starter The Devil
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What possible motive could we all have to make this stuff up?
Nevermind the racking, I like the look of that beefy looking cassette deck... Looks like a high-end Aiwa...Originally posted by michaelab
Forget Mana - this is the stand you want...proper industrial racking:
Michael.
julian2002
Muper Soderator
james,
seriously, i've heard mana and in that context it did not apeal to me. i'm not saying that it doesn;t appeal to you and the other faithful however. i think the problem is that those who are 'into' mana don;t accept the fact that there are alternatives or that people don't happen to enjoy 'the mana effect'. in this respect they remind me of lim over on hfc who had a similar attitude to valves vs transistors.
cheers
julian
seriously, i've heard mana and in that context it did not apeal to me. i'm not saying that it doesn;t appeal to you and the other faithful however. i think the problem is that those who are 'into' mana don;t accept the fact that there are alternatives or that people don't happen to enjoy 'the mana effect'. in this respect they remind me of lim over on hfc who had a similar attitude to valves vs transistors.
cheers
julian
The Devil
IHTFP
I take your point Julian, maybe I'm lucky that Mana seems to suit my Naim gear/room etc.
BUT......you really have to try it in your own system in your own house, etc (rather like a home speaker demo) before you can tell what, if anything, it is doing.
I was similarly unimpressed by the first Mana'd-up system I ever heard, but it's meaningless because I had no way of knowing what the gear sounded like without Mana. At least with your own system you have a 'hard' reference point.
BUT......you really have to try it in your own system in your own house, etc (rather like a home speaker demo) before you can tell what, if anything, it is doing.
I was similarly unimpressed by the first Mana'd-up system I ever heard, but it's meaningless because I had no way of knowing what the gear sounded like without Mana. At least with your own system you have a 'hard' reference point.
penance
Arrogant Cock
None
but honestly
a rack improving a PC
please tell me what area of the PC performance it improved.
Maybe i could get it into the test labs at work an prove one way or another
but after all, a PC relies on the transfer of 1 and 0 from one place to another, how would Mana help?
The Devil
IHTFP
I don't know, Alan explained that his PC ran faster at my place. It's an electro-mechanical device, they 'like' being on Mana.
A physicist who works with laser equipment and optical tables visited my place some time ago, he got very excited about the stands and asked if some phase numbers were thought to be much better than others, I said yes, he said 'would nine be a good number?' I nearly fell off the sofa. He 'got it' immediately.
Pink Floyd put their laser show gear on Mana tables because the beams are more tightly focussed.
A physicist who works with laser equipment and optical tables visited my place some time ago, he got very excited about the stands and asked if some phase numbers were thought to be much better than others, I said yes, he said 'would nine be a good number?' I nearly fell off the sofa. He 'got it' immediately.
Pink Floyd put their laser show gear on Mana tables because the beams are more tightly focussed.
julian2002
Muper Soderator
james,
i agree with you that i should try it in my own system before making a final judgement. but just as i distrust organised religion the prostelytizing on behalf of mana has got my guard up. also i'm not sure that i can deal with the setup necessary, i'm a big chap and messing about with spanners, spirit levels and from all accounts spikes with a thirst for blood at ankle height may be a bit too much.
cheers
julian
i agree with you that i should try it in my own system before making a final judgement. but just as i distrust organised religion the prostelytizing on behalf of mana has got my guard up. also i'm not sure that i can deal with the setup necessary, i'm a big chap and messing about with spanners, spirit levels and from all accounts spikes with a thirst for blood at ankle height may be a bit too much.
cheers
julian
penance
Arrogant Cock
a lazer may well work better, particulary measurement lasers
but faster processing is preposterous
to get any noticeable difference in speed these days you would be stepping up a good few hendred Mhz, did Mana overclock his machine?
but faster processing is preposterous
to get any noticeable difference in speed these days you would be stepping up a good few hendred Mhz, did Mana overclock his machine?
So it improves a PC does it.
How about this then.
Do some benchmark testing before and after placing it on a stand, and see if there are any *significant* differences.
Sorry, but not only do I think your talking absolute bollocks of the highest disorder, but you are quite clearly an insane madman!!
BTW, the reason I will not try Mana is because:-
a) It does not work with 100% of people and/or equipment which suggests....
b) Its largely the placebo effect at work again
c) Its an expensive experiment for something that is almost certainly not going to work.
d) I've got better things to do with my time.
Perhaps if I stand on a 10 tier mana rack with my headphones on, they'll sound better too, and maybe my farts will be louder...
How about this then.
Do some benchmark testing before and after placing it on a stand, and see if there are any *significant* differences.
Sorry, but not only do I think your talking absolute bollocks of the highest disorder, but you are quite clearly an insane madman!!
BTW, the reason I will not try Mana is because:-
a) It does not work with 100% of people and/or equipment which suggests....
b) Its largely the placebo effect at work again
c) Its an expensive experiment for something that is almost certainly not going to work.
d) I've got better things to do with my time.
Perhaps if I stand on a 10 tier mana rack with my headphones on, they'll sound better too, and maybe my farts will be louder...
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
Marcus, I'm sorry I would have replied earlier, however my PC, did an imitation of mana phase 37 being hit by a stray frying pan been thrown at it by the other half, who's just clapped eyes on it
Right, Marcus, I could be talking about a clock/ psu/ different output (analogue) stages redesigning, super clean power being appiled, perhaps some op-amps changes.
Now, also cables changes will have an effect, I have a rack at work, with 'pick a presentation' stuck on them, want M/f we've got em, want mana, no probs sir.
Now, you could also achieve this with a sophistacted room parametric EQ and computer modeling. (should you wish to)
Now speakers are as you say Marcus a very previlent point, we could up the capacitor specs, change the Resistors and the voice coils, to give great dynamic swings, cleaner detail, greater scale and improved bass responce.
My point here, providing the speakers are transparent enough ( and a good many are, you own some of the most), and the amplifier is also invisiable, then what you put in you get out?
Now this is where, the electronics come in, we can 'alter' the sound of the soucre to suit our tastes to a point, now by clocking a cdp, basicaly you get more of the same charactor of the inheirent sound of the player, yes more detail/bass & dynamics BUT in the same vein (to alter this dramaticaly, you would have to replace the dac chips themselves)
enough babble, lets look at what mana gives the ferrite worshipers, More Detail, inproved dynamics and thwack, more leading edge, greater life, a Wow factor, now for me, they also loose the groove factor some what, and timing tends to drift a touch, however for them another level gives that 'fix' for a few months, till the scapollowmean wears off
It does give tighter bass, they followers also claim greater realisum and naturalness ( hummm). So what they figure is, a big boost alround virtualy to the performance envelope.
Now, lets take a look at the electronics option,
CDP clocking gives that immediate increase in dynamics, detail & bass depth and body, (small piece of curcitry about 3 " square max), next take a seperate supply to that clock and it's further enhanced, not in just one or 2 areas but all.
This alone won't equate to 37 levels of mana, but it will give all the mana traits plus others that mana tends to forget, like image focus, depth of field and texture
Maybe you want more, no probs, want to really give the sound a kick in the arse (after clocking) operational amplifiers are you next port of call ( this is in effect order, for mana users), depending on what you want, either a deep rich texturious lush full bodied sound, or a fast, leading edge detail attack pattern, with major visearal impact, and speed.
This will (combined with the clock & psu) make 'serious impact' of your front end.
I'm purposely keeping away from cables here, but clean shite free power, also helps the sound surprising well.
Ok, here the deal, it's simpler/cleaper/eco friendlier and girly approved, and how does it sound, simply great.
All the mana guys going yeah, yeah, yeah don't talk bollox
I have no mana in my system at all, my speakers don't sit some where between the P.O. Tower and Mars, I wont find Iron filings in the room first thing in the morning, because the mouse has been trying to chew it
and, I won't have an 'Anality meter' on the wall to county the number of rings I have to perform, to correctly set it up, or go into a tis if I take a component off the top level and happen to just knock it by mistake 
All my point is, why have all that iron work in your living room, when you can approach the problem for another angle.
Nothing more. Wm
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penance
Arrogant Cock
A) It does seem to work, but the effect is not to everyones likeing
B) Purely speculative bollox there mate
C) how can you say that when you admit to never haveing tried it?
D) fair comment
Im with you on the PC thing tho
garyi
Wish I had a Large Member
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Bub where did you get that about floyds lasers.
On their stage shows the bloody things were up and down on hydrolic lifts and in the 87 tour they were fixed with close ups of them on the video, no mana in sight.
Really you are sometimes so gullible.
Mana, a peice of angle iron with 8 precarious spikes, supporting a class A dangerous laser in an auditorium of a minimum of 18000 people, yea Health and saftey were sure to pass that.
On their stage shows the bloody things were up and down on hydrolic lifts and in the 87 tour they were fixed with close ups of them on the video, no mana in sight.
Really you are sometimes so gullible.
Mana, a peice of angle iron with 8 precarious spikes, supporting a class A dangerous laser in an auditorium of a minimum of 18000 people, yea Health and saftey were sure to pass that.
So you're saying you're a sheep like all the others you've ridiculed in the past? James, Naim 'recommend' a single spur because it's far easier to do that than become involved in the controversy of endorsing options they know are better. There are also sound commercial reasons why it's logical for them to take this particular stance.
Yes, but you also use MusicWorks mains leads. Why not hobble your Naim kit from the off, eh? I suggest you consult Ian Dales (who's mains opinion you hold in such high esteem) about the difference between the leads you're using and the stock Naim ones.
Marco.
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sideshowbob
Trisha
Blimey Marco, do you ever talk about anything else?
What's your favourite record?
-- Ian
What's your favourite record?
-- Ian
wadia-miester
Mighty Rearranger
Bar, bar black sheep have you any................... 
The Devil
IHTFP
Bloody Norah! Marco, get over it!
OK, OK, so why is it 'easier' for Naim to recommend one spur rather than several? Is it the common earth thing which you understand so clearly?
And what are these 'sound commercial reasons'?
Mains leads? .. do me a favour.
You are Geekus Autisticus, a new species of electro-freak.
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I-S
Good Evening.... Infidel
There seems to be a lot of contradictory "information" that makes me laugh at times...
One I was reading recently about the TDA1541A single crown DAC used in the Naim CDI. This is quite an old DAC chip, and the article contended that it was more microphonic than newer devices.
Fair Enough.
The article then contended that a good support is therfore important.
Fair Enough.
The article then contended that mana was perfect.
Erm... what?
We know that mana stuff resonates. That resonance is tuned, but definately a resonance. If we accept the premise of microphony in the DAC, then surely we DON'T want to put it on a resonating stand?
Hence my distinctly non-resonant stand.
I don't doubt that mana has an effect on the sound. Neither do I doubt that my rack had an effect on the sound.
Different. Not necessarily better (or worse).
One I was reading recently about the TDA1541A single crown DAC used in the Naim CDI. This is quite an old DAC chip, and the article contended that it was more microphonic than newer devices.
Fair Enough.
The article then contended that a good support is therfore important.
Fair Enough.
The article then contended that mana was perfect.
Erm... what?
We know that mana stuff resonates. That resonance is tuned, but definately a resonance. If we accept the premise of microphony in the DAC, then surely we DON'T want to put it on a resonating stand?
Hence my distinctly non-resonant stand.
I don't doubt that mana has an effect on the sound. Neither do I doubt that my rack had an effect on the sound.
Different. Not necessarily better (or worse).
dat19
blind test terrorist
Whoa!! Wait up...
Could you explain what is "microphonic" about a DAC chip please...
Bub,
Get rid of the Music Works stuff in your system cos it plain isn't gonna work as it should there.
Synergy and all that.
Get rid of the Music Works stuff in your system cos it plain isn't gonna work as it should there.
Synergy and all that.
anyone ever done any Mana experiments at a bakeoff??
for what it matters, supports/isolation does make a difference- over the past 3 weeks or so, i've spent 2-3 hours finding noticeable, albeit subtle differences between such things as ball bearing feet, aluminium/titanium Pulsar Points, foam sandwiches and various combinations of all four, and they DO affect the sound.
as you can see from my signature, i was so impressed with the aluminium Pulsar Points, that i got a set of three for £35 or so, because they make the music so much tighter and coherent.
and as for Marcus and his mains cables, well, mains cables CAN affect the sound too, but i've only found one- Blackcurrent.
for what it matters, supports/isolation does make a difference- over the past 3 weeks or so, i've spent 2-3 hours finding noticeable, albeit subtle differences between such things as ball bearing feet, aluminium/titanium Pulsar Points, foam sandwiches and various combinations of all four, and they DO affect the sound.
as you can see from my signature, i was so impressed with the aluminium Pulsar Points, that i got a set of three for £35 or so, because they make the music so much tighter and coherent.
and as for Marcus and his mains cables, well, mains cables CAN affect the sound too, but i've only found one- Blackcurrent.
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